Thread: 3.3~ Job Feedback & Future Changes

Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

Dark Dance's Dark Arts effect should be an auto-parry.

No thanks... I value that evasion, especially when stacked with Dark Arts Dark Passenger, far too much... I get why a 100% Parry chance is better, since you can use it as a guaranteed 20% mitigation on a tank buster and then follow it up with a 10% damage reduction, but... I just really love the synergy between Dark Dance and Dark Passenger on large groups of mobs...

Ideally, I'd like them to implement IXs AP system and let us adjust the effect of traits that way... Then we can have the best of both worlds... "Enhanced Dark Dance" could function like Sheltron and give you one guaranteed Parry, then we can set that for boss fights where it shines, while trash pulls benefit more from the current effect so you can remove it for that... Shame this game apparently isn't allowed any degree of customization...

Originally Posted by Xlantaa

- Allow the activation of Blood weapon on Grit. No sense lock it.

That'd really cheapen Dark Knight IMO... That makes MP recovery far too easy and removes any sense of risk involved from playing it in a MP intensive fashion... While main tanking you'd just be able to spam Dark Arts constantly with no real worry, I really don't think that's how Dark Knight is meant to be played... If you spam Dark Arts a lot, there is meant to be some risk involved, and that risk is dropping Grit to access Blood Weapon... Perhaps my only issue with that is the MP cost on Grit being so steep...

Originally Posted by Nalien

Ideally, I'd like them to implement IXs AP system and let us adjust the effect of traits that way...

I agree, IX's magic stones system is basically perfect for an MMORPG. You get X magic stones and you can change the stones on the fly whenever you're in a sanctuary or out of combat. If you're not in a sanctuary, you get slapped with the standard punishment that we have now for changing cross-class abilities.

Additional thoughts on Dark Knight: Blood Weapon being usable in Grit would be nice, if they removed Blood Pact and made Blood Weapon proc on magical attacks. Another side thought, is that Dark Knight could be buffed incredibly by gaining Rogue as a cross-class over Marauder. Marauder is nice, it gives Dark Knight Mercy Stroke and Blood Bath, but I feel that Dark Knight would be better served with access to Shade Shift, Assassinate, Goad, and Death Blossom. If you're worried about Assassinate's power, it could be fixed by increasing its base recast to 90s and having the trait All Fours reduce it to the 40s it has currently. Shade Shift and Goad would just be so good on a tank, and would match Dark Knight's style. Assassinate and Death Blossom, likewise, aren't too far fetched, since we already know Dark Knights "fight like men possessed" and that they "[show] no sign of pain." Additionally, we see numerous times, both through the Job's animations and the lore that Dark Knights, through their magic, practically ignore the weight of their weapons, it wouldn't be hard to imagine a Dark Knight leaping into the air to rain conjured knives or to plunge (pun intended) their sword into the enemy's skull.

Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

Another side thought, is that Dark Knight could be buffed incredibly by gaining Rogue as a cross-class over Marauder. Marauder is nice, it gives Dark Knight Mercy Stroke and Blood Bath, but I feel that Dark Knight would be better served with access to Shade Shift, Assassinate, Goad, and Death Blossom.

Well, personally I'd have opted for Lancer, but that stems from pre-Blood Weapon/TP adjustments and PvP more than anything... Feint would be some nice utility in PvP, and I'd have died for Invigorate before they adjusted TP costs and had Blood Weapon reduce them further... Keel Flurry is obviously quite appropriate for Dark Knight as well, and Blood for Blood strikes me as very Dark Knight... Then again, so does Bloodbath... The lack of a En-Drain and Drain Spikes for Dark Knight is disappointing, though they could perhaps slap those onto Blood Price/Blood Weapon with Dark Arts... If we get more skills using Dark Arts though, we definitely will require better MP recovery...

Really though, I wish they'd change the cross-class system in general anyway... I would much rather have Job quests unlock unique versions of existing cross-class skills... I wouldn't even limit it to our current selection, I'd love it if we had access to far more skills to set in those 5 slots, such that it's actually worth thinking about what to set... I'd quite like it to be fairly situational to reward smart players, if I know a fight is coming up where I don't need "Provoke", I can set something different, for example... Since they'd all also be unique Job skills, they can also tie into Job mechanics; Rather than Ninja having Second Wind and Invigorate, for example, perhaps it has one skill that does both, with weaker effects and on a shorter cooldown, with the venom determining whether it restores HP or TP... Dark Knights unique version of Convalescence could be more powerful but for a shorter duration (perfect for Walking Dead) and have a Dark Arts effect that boosts the drain on Abyssal Drain/Souleater... If we're also not limited to the existing options, it would be quite nice to see Dark Knight get something like Convert, although if we're making it more unique to Dark Knight, I'd opt for either a Meditate style GCD for Dark Knight to use to sacrifice HP for MP in downtime, or a skill that makes your next Dark Arts cost HP instead of MP...

I actually think that would be a better direction to take skill for 4.0 than Lv70 and 5 additional skills... Not looking forward to more skill bloat...

Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

@RLofOBFL
Also, I'm not going to repeat myself, but please do some math. I went over what makes Sword Oath so absurdly powerful as it is on page 2.

Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

If Sword Oath doesn't seem powerful to you yet, think of it as boosting the Paladin's damage by 15% (as compared to their nigh-default -15% from Shield Oath) and then adding an additional 50 potency to every weaponskill they use.

This is just off...

Assuming all oGCDs are being used on CD and at max health, a PLD will do 10 pps from each. 150 from the 15s, 250 from the 25s, 300 from the 30s. Generally, you'll be getting a fair bit less than that, closer to 25 oGCD pps; ~2250 to 2700 potency per 90s. This does not increase with Skill Speed.

RA combos then give 700 each (233 p/gcd) and GB combos give 1020 (340 p/gcd). At a 2.5 GCD, that would be 12 combos (8 RAs, 4 GBs) or 9680 weaponskill potency per 90 seconds, or avg. 107.6 pps or 268.77 p/gcd. This portion alone increases with Skill Speed.

Base AAs then contribute another 100 potency per 3 seconds, dealt at weapon speed intervals, or avg. 33.3 pps; 3000 potency per 90s. This does not increase with Skill Speed, only Attack Speed, and only after an attack has been made since the buff was applied.

Sword Oath contributes 50 potency per AA. Contribution therefore differs with weapon speed. This does not increase with Skill Speed, only Attack Speed, and only after an attack has been made since the buff was applied.

1.80s weapon --> 60 base potency per hit --> 110 potency with SwO --> 83% buff to AA dps.
3.0s weapon --> 100 base potency per hit --> 150 potency with SwO --> 50% buff to AA dps.
2.24s weapon --> 74.7 base potency per hit --> 124.7 potency with SwO --> 67% buff to AA dps.

At a 2.24 GCD, Sword Oath would strike 40.18 times, or contribute 2000 (remainder 8.9) potency per 90 seconds.

So in total, per 90s a Paladin deals up to 2700 oGCD potency, 3000 base AA potency, 9680 weaponskill potency, and 2000 Sword Oath potency. Sword Oath totals a 11.5% dps increase. That's nothing near the 15% plus that amount (or, 26.5% dps increase) you've approximated it to. Sword Oath is strong, but takes its flavor specifically from being, essentially, boring and unmanipulable.

[I've skipped Fight or Flight potency adjustments since it only varies by up to 30 potency contribution in execution, and/or up to 18 potency contribution by delay, and therefore does not especially adjust Sword Oath's contribution percentage.]

Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

- Wide Volley (Bard): Change it to a 250 potency AoE ability with a cooldown of 30 seconds. Right now with its absurd TP cost, there's hardly any reason to use it over Quick Nock, of which both skills share the same potency anyway (with Wide Volley costing 20 more TP).
- Stoneskin II (WHM): Changed to a 60 second CD ability, and now usable in combat.
- Shroud of Saints (WHM): Refresh duration increased to 21 seconds.

Those are pretty much the only gripes that immediately come to mind.

Wide Volley: reduce the tp cost so is the AoE skill to spam....QN is unusable in some enviroments (risk of dying , having to go near mobs ...)

Change Quick nock to for 10s all your skills are instant cast .... 1 min cd?