DPSing as a healer

[FoxyAreku]

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense. I'll just have to turn off error messages if I use it.

[FinaSel]

I DPS as a healer as much as possible and I never run out of mana unless I need to raise people.
After level 50, you will get so many useful skills to heal people without using mana and also replenish your mana.

This method is for Level 60 WHM:
If you use Shroud of Saints and Asize (+level 50 skill) whenever they are off cooldown you will probably never run out of mana.
In fact, I will usually open with DPS.
Presence of Mind --> Aero III / II (depending on number of mobs) --> Aero I --> Fluid Aura (if a boss) --> Shroud of Saints --> Stone III spam OR Holy spam until Presence of Mind is over. --> Asize (depending on MP and remaining mobs)
The reason for Presense of Mind first is that Aero III has a long cast time. Presence of Mind reduces this significantly. Because Aero I is instant, but has a global cooldown, there is an empty space there. So I use Fluid Aura (instant cast, no global cooldown) and Shroud of Saints (same).
By this time, the global cooldown has just ended, so it's time to spam another skill.

Switch out of cleric stance.
Divine Seal --> Regen --> Tetragrammaton --> Cure (II) if necessary
I've just added a lot of DPS, (should) still have full MP, and the tank should be topped off.
If Holy spamming, I will add an Asize at the end to help regen the lost MP. Asize also deals quite a lot of damage.

Switch back to cleric stance and continue DPS.

Due to Divine seal's cooldown, I will use the AoE heal bubble (forget the name) every other pull + Regen.
When Divine Seal is up, I use that plus Regen.

At boss fights, I generally use Divine Seal + Medica II and Regen on tank.
I rarely find myself using Cure or Cure II in normal dungeons or trials unless the tank is a beginner or undergeared.

If I see myself running low on mana I will use a potion, but I think I've only had to do that in Weeping City.

I think 80% of my spell usage is doing DPS on both bosses and trash. Regen and Medica II and the AoE bubble, will replenish so much Hp that there should be so much free time to DPS.

It is more difficult to DPS before 50, but I still just do basically Stone II spam until tank is below 50% --> off Cleric Stance --> Divine Seal --> Regen --> Cure (II) --> On CS --> Stone II spam.
If more than 3 mobs, Holy spam.

[DeadRiser]

It's really not hard to DPS as a healer unless you or the tank is undergeared.

AST/WHM - keep the regens up. SCH - your fairy.

Most of the time in the dungeons, I have half MP from healing and dpsing the entire time. It really does make the dungeon go faster and the rest of the party loves it.

[RiisWolf]

Gordias Savage. Where its DPS heavy meta changed the idea of a competent healer from one able to effortlessly keep the party alive to being a 24/7 DPS even if they don't do the DPS part right. I find more and more healers argue that healing comes second, and it doesn't help players who do only heal while doing a superb job at it get noticed or commended. The most frustrating thing is that after all of that, we don't have any more tanks or DPS anymore competent at their damage dealing part than before, and once again, even though fights like A2S is a thing, AoEs are still hard pressed. Even tons of WHMs don't bother with holy (over stone 3 vs multiple enemies) despite running places countless of times.

Heals always come first. Fighting is purely supplementary. This isn't WoW where they actually encourage combat healers by boosting your healing with certain attacks. Cleric stance is just there to make doing things by yourself, such as defending yourself, a lot less dreadful. As if the fact that CS is disabled in PvP, all heavensward healing gear having no accuracy, and mechanics that has no enemy to attack or forces you to save yourself wasn't any indication enough about what's intended and what's not.

[FeliciaTheSecond]

Lot of good info in this thread for newbies. Great to see! Even though most of what I will say has been said before I guess I'll just serve to emphasize the more important points.

Firstly healer DPS is NOT insignificant. I will regularly outdps bad dps and actual good dps I still do about 70-80% (its on the higher and of the spectrum if I have a good bard or machinist) of the damage they do over the course of a 4 man dungeon. This is almost like having a third dps.

If you're new to healing do start small. Try to do your rotation without cleric stance and start using it once you feel comfortable.

Use Assize/Shroud as soon as possible. Basically if you have the space to absorb the regen (or will be in combat longer than the duration in Shroud's case) use it. That person that said WHM's mana issues stem from your party members is spot on. I never have any mana issues if my group is on point and in 4 mans I am dpsing maybe 90+% of the time.

Advanced tactics: Spell/Ability Queueing - I don't know if this is common knowledge or not but you can activate almost any oGCD (Or stance) while casting. At any point during the cast. It will happen immediately after your current cast finishes.

Movement - You can start moving once your cast is roughly 75%-80% through and it will still go off.

[Zadocfish]

I reached lvl 50 as SCH. In all but the really big encounters and bosses, I would be doing NOTHING whatsoever in most combat if I wasn't DPSing. The DOT power is fantastic in CS. It's like having 3 DPS for average encounters, and even with DPS and Healing bars on different bars, I can switch between the two seamlessly so long as I have Cleric Stance on both bars.

So yeah, I agree that a SCH who doesn't DPS isn't doing his job well. Simply put, you're just straight-up not doing much of anything in average encounters thanks to your fairy.

[FeliciaTheSecond]

So yeah, I agree that a SCH who doesn't DPS isn't doing his job well. Simply put, you're just straight-up not doing much of anything in average encounters thanks to your fairy.

I honestly don't know how healers can JUST heal in anything that isn't top tier raiding content. I would honestly fall asleep. As it stands now even as a WHM I spend 90% of my time dpsing in groups. A lot of times thanks to holy stun I don't even have to cast a heal on some pulls in 4 mans.

Also I really need to try out SCH one of these days. Even as a whm main I fully acknowledge that they are overall better than us, although that may vary by people's preference.

[Zadocfish]

I honestly don't know how healers can JUST heal in anything that isn't top tier raiding content. I would honestly fall asleep. As it stands now even as a WHM I spend 90% of my time dpsing in groups. A lot of times thanks to holy stun I don't even have to cast a heal on some pulls in 4 mans.

Also I really need to try out SCH one of these days. Even as a whm main I fully acknowledge that they are overall better than us, although that may vary by people's preference.

Yeah, between Lily and a toolkit including a free, instant Potency 600 healing spell and a free, instant 10% damage reduction over a decent area, awesome MP restorative built into its best abilities, and spells that include damage cushions, SCH has perhaps the easiest time of any class at keeping allies alive.

[_slowpoke_]

Gordias Savage. Where its DPS heavy meta changed the idea of a competent healer from one able to effortlessly keep the party alive to being a 24/7 DPS even if they don't do the DPS part right.

Good healers have always DPS'd, even before Gordias. Gordias just made it that much more apparent that DPSing is part of our jobs as healers, and that it separates the mediocre from the truly good healers.

I find more and more healers argue that healing comes second

This is a strawman argument, because no one argues this. Stop using it. We're saying that you should minimize healing while maximizing time spent in Cleric Stance, because it's the only way to master the art of healing. You will never understand or even master the finer nuances of MP, GCD, and time management if you do not DPS as a healer, because it's unnecessary to do so if you don't, which leads us to your next point...

and it doesn't help players who do only heal while doing a superb job at it get noticed or commended

If you only heal, you are not doing your job properly - you are literally ignoring half your toolkit - and you cannot be good at healing if you refuse to DPS. You might be able to keep the group alive and get them through an encounter, but that is not being a good healer, that's doing the required absolute minimum. You can at best be considered mediocre, and judging from experience, most "heals only" players are really, really bad at their job.

Heals always come first. Fighting is purely supplementary.

No healer who pushes for DPS will contest the first part. It's the second we vehemently disagree with. Again, you are ignoring half your toolkit if you refuse to touch Cleric Stance, you are going to stand around for up to 100% of a fight if you're not DPSing (which is inexcusable on all other jobs as well, so healers don't get a free pass for it either), and you're intentionally being lazy. Fighting is not supplementary. It's part of our job, and if you don't do it, you're a mediocre healer. You can of course accept this and carry on being mediocre, but stop arguing that intentionally playing your job at a suboptimal level can be considered playing well, because it isn't.

This isn't WoW where they actually encourage combat healers by boosting your healing with certain attacks.

How does that matter exactly?

Cleric stance is just there to make doing things by yourself, such as defending yourself, a lot less dreadful.

No, it's not. Hell, the game even tells you this in the Hall of Novices. See signature [edit: apparently my signature disappeared for some reason]. You are expected to DPS if you have nothing better to do, end of story.

As if the fact that CS is disabled in PvP

Cleric is disabled in PvP not because you're not supposed to DPS there (you are), but because it would cause healers to be severely overpowered.

all heavensward healing gear having no accuracy

Yes, which is what you will hear every good healer complaining about while they put 120 accuracy on their relic and meld Accuracy as much as they can. Healer gear having no accuracy is not an indication that you're not supposed to DPS.

and mechanics that has no enemy to attack or forces you to save yourself wasn't any indication enough about what's intended and what's not.

If you're bringing up mechanics now (and I suppose you're talking about A7's healer jail), let me bring up my own examples, which disprove your point.

Calcabrina requires you to DPS as a healer. If you don't, you are objectively playing your job wrong.
Hummelfaust basically required healer DPS before people got their 230 weapons, unless your DPS players were really, really good. The combined ~1k DPS that a good healing duo could push there was the difference between getting to the actual boss and a humiliating wipe on a trash boss.
A6s Blaster has the five mirages phase, where no damage is going out at all. If you are not in Cleric spamming Holy/Gravity in this phase, you are objectively playing your job wrong.

Plus, there's a lot of boss fights where every bit of additional DPS can help to push phases early, thus skipping damage that you would otherwise have to heal. Nidex is a great example overall: the earlier you push add phase, the less Bellowing Roars and cleaves you have deal with. The faster you kill the adds, the less you have to worry about their cleaves, and they hit like wet noodles otherwise. Healer DPS during Fang & Claw highly increases the margin of error. Healer DPS in the last phase can be the difference between getting another Ahk Morn towards the end for which you won't have enough healing CDs (or MP, for that matter), and a kill - not to mention the fact that there is no damage happening for extended amounts of time in the last phase, too.

Finally, to sum this up: it doesn't matter what the devs intended or not, these are the facts. About the only thing the devs have said is that they don't require healer DPS when they tune encounters, because they realized Gordias was overtuned. That doesn't mean you're not supposed to DPS as a healer, it merely means your DPS contribution is not strictly required to beat a boss. Besides, basically every fight in this game is designed in a way that you have downtime as a healer. I could as well argue that this means the devs intended you to DPS there. Again, I don't, because what the devs intended does not matter in this discussion. Player skill is defined by the meta, not by the devs.

[sackm]

^ great post