DPSing as a healer

[CookieMonsta]

Healer DPS was required to complete Gordias Savage before the full i210 level. How about I just ask did you even clear A3S-A4S pre-nerf as a healer?

Check my fflogs and/or achievements bro, just not as a healer. But how do I know healer DPS is needed? because the DPS check was friggin tight with 210 already, it is borderline impossible with no healer DPS in <210.

[FunkyBunch]

Check my fflogs and/or achievements bro, just not as a healer. But how do I know healer DPS is needed? because the DPS check was friggin tight with 210 already, it is borderline impossible with no healer DPS in <210.

In the quote he took of you the part he's talking about is where you said "Healer DPS not required." in respect to Gordias.

[CookieMonsta]

In the quote he took of you the part he's talking about is where you said "Healer DPS not required." in respect to Gordias.

I re-edited my original post to make it plain as day

[KitomiSaitichi]

(a) There are players with varying levels of skill of gameplay, these being factors of knowledge, reflexes, timing and predictive capabilities and foresight

Knowledge lets you anticipate the mechanics and react proactively, whether it be applying a sleep / fluid uara to interrupt a mob, a stoneskin to mitigate AoE damage, or to do X, Y, Z mechanic

Judgement and Foresight lets you react appropriately when an unexpected situation arises, making the right decisions at the right time, such as a secondary mob coming to the current pack of mobs; do you sleep it, provoke and shield lob, stun - or if suddenly someone gets a spike critical - do you swiftcast resurrect or do you get ready to dodge the mechanic thats about to turn you into a rock; are your party members going to come closer to you or do they spread out when they take AoE damage. This changes what skills you use at what time.

Reflexes and Timing allows you to make the accurate fine motor movements necessary to press the right button at the right time, the tank might take 2 "ticks" of mobs hitting before they require a heal, a "spike-flat-spike-flat-flat-spike" pattern or whatever is conceptualized automatically when you become adjusted to healing

(b) The end-game goal is open-ended for all players
Nothing in this game requires you to do specifically one thing or another for enjoyment. Not all players care about the dungeon being 20% faster. Not all players need to know that you can save '1,695 gil in repairs' by leveling crafts. Not all players need to know 'A-B-C-X or Y' rotation does 16% more damage than 'A-B-D-C' rotation for X, Y, Z boss since they likely won't ever get to X, Y, Z boss.

(c) Optimal gameplay is not needed in all cases, only in those requiring performance-level gameplay, like dedicated raids.

(d) One should demonstrate some minimum level of consideration for others when playing with a random group.
When people are playing dungeons, they hopefully, and typically seek to clear the dungeon without too many wipes within a reasonable amount of time. Adapt to the needs to the group as long as the objective can be done; big pulls - more heals, small, manageable pulls - a little more proactiveness. In most cases for lower level content, a savings of 3 - 5 minutes can be expected on a 25 - 35 minute run. Most people don't usually notice this anyways as they are busy in a queue or AFK or doing something else while in game. No one is 100% efficient as a player in setting goals and completing those goals. Anyhow, horseplaying and pulling all the mobs or just simply not healing and not damaging mobs is a demonstration of showing no consideration for others towards completing said objective. If someone is at least healing, they are at least contributing. People who have this expectation of being down to the last second in dungeon savings to go on a 16-hour grind on a weekend are unrealistic and need to re-adjust their own expectations, and to see if they are themselves that 'optimally attuned' to achieving their goals - chances are they are not.

With all these factors in mind, at the end of the day, it is the player who decides whether he or she wants to improve his or her level of gameplay to spend less time idling and more time being proactive. Some people enjoy doing a concurrent analysis while playing, positioning of mobs, timing of cooldowns, the proper setup or contingency plan for when X, Y, Z member fails and whatnot - while many also do not. The average level of gameplay or skill that is needed in low level content is not a requirement to be optimal at all times. Players choosing to do group content do have objectives, but realistically, dungeons won't take 1 hours or more (2.5% percentile wise) when everyone is playing at said 'average skill level'. To this end, we don't need to encourage 'not playing at all - or being inconsiderate' nor do we need to make everyone 'optimal raid-master machines that systematically play at the 99.9% percentile level'.

If you can heal and DPS, and you want to be better, then do it.
If you can only heal, and don't have the aptitude or capacity to be better, then it's fine. Just don't expect to do harder content where the standards are higher.
If you see others that heal and DPS and no one is dead, great, they are doing better than average or perceived level of average skill.
If you see others only heal, and everyone is alive, good - they are doing what contributes to the objective of said dungeon, although there is room for improvement, if the player decides they want said improvement. If improvement is necessitated to clear said content, then help the player improve. If the player refuses to improve, great, you can remove them from the group.
If you see others only heal, and someone still dies, and it's not because they are new, and not because the party members decided to stand in orange AoE circles, then give them a few pointers.

Give someone the benefit of the doubt.

[FunkyBunch]

nor do we need to make everyone 'optimal raid-master machines that systematically play at the 99.9% percentile level'.

Literally no one is saying that ever.
You've literally missed the entire point.

All we have asked is to be at least as good as the Hall of the Bloody Novice is asking you to be. That is the minimum level for "average". Below that is terrible. End of story.

[_slowpoke_]

All we have asked is to be at least as good as the Hall of the Bloody Novice is asking you to be. That is the minimum level for "average". Below that is terrible. End of story.

This. All we're asking people is to be better than a computer controlled pet, because frickin' Selene can heal almost all dungeons in this game on her own provided the tank doesn't do massive pulls. If you're playing on the level of a fairy, you're being carried, there's really no other way to put it.

[Seoulstar]

Maybe I missed a few posts because I don't recall seeing any asking. Just basically dps as a healer or be called lazy, selfish, bad, etc. Or be told to change your role because you don't want to stance dance. Despite the fact it's not mandatory Personally, I have zero problem with dpsing as a healer. I dps whenever I can. But if I see another healer not dpsing? Oh well, it's not the end of the world. If they're keeping the party alive, that's my primary concern.

[FunkyBunch]

Maybe I missed a few posts because I don't recall seeing any asking. Just basically dps as a healer or be called lazy, selfish, bad, etc. Or be told to change your role because you don't want to stance dance. Despite the fact it's not mandatory Personally, I have zero problem with dpsing as a healer. I dps whenever I can. But if I see another healer not dpsing? Oh well, it's not the end of the world. If they're keeping the party alive, that's my primary concern.

You missed many posts I think. And they ARE bad if they're not even up to the Hall of the Novice level. Performing at the Hall of the NOVICE tutorial level is the minimum level we should expect. If you cannot, pick another class or another game. No other class can perform worse than that and not get kicked. But that stupid green icon and "healer" makes everyone get their underwear in a knot when they're asked to do the ACTUAL minimum THAT THE GAME ITSELF ASKS YOU TO.

But it's not JUST here in the forums we're asking.
Two days ago, when I did EX Roulette, I asked if the Healer could please use Cleric Stance.
His response:
"Nah, I'm lazy"

[Fevelle]

"Nah, I'm lazy"

Maybe he was tired or just woke up? You guys make a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe it's a cultural thing, who knows, but personally I don't even pay attention to what healers are doing when I'm DPSing, as long as I'm alive. Too focused on doing my thing to bother with others.

All this "pick another class or another game" makes me think of players who leave clear parties after first wipe. He paid the same as you for the game, bad or good the player has the right to play whatever he wants, as long as he strives to improve. Be a little less arrogant and maybe people won't answer "Nah, I'm lazy" when you tell them what to do.

[Seoulstar]

snip

Yes, the hall of novice asks you to. But that does NOT mean it's mandatory. It will not decide whether or not you will live or die in the dungeon. It does not say if you don't dps, your entire party will wipe. I don't understand why something so little is such a major deal to some people. As I stated, a bad healer is someone that doesn't do their PRIMARY role. Not their secondary. If the person doesn't want to dps, so what? Just move on, it's not going to kill you. But apparently that seems to be way too difficult. Also, so over that one instance, that means every healer that doesn't dps is lazy? Of course not. There could be numerous reasons. Personally it's none of my business anyways. I'm just going to say this:
People play at their own pace, if they're going to dps as a healer, they will do so when they are comfortable. However long that takes. No amount of rants and insults will change that.