DPSing as a healer

[Seoulstar]

Look, this game is not going to force healers to heal all the time in casual content. Ever. If you want to heal all the time they have made content for that, go do it and stop asking them to change the way the healing jobs are set up and the balance of the game because you don't like it. There are plenty of games out there where you can be semi afk and spam heals every turn if that's what floats your boat. Ffxiv is not like that and will never be like that because the casual player can't handle it. So adjust and suck it up, or move along. In case you haven't noticed most healers enjoy this meta....

Shouldn't the people complaining follow that advice as well? The healer doesn't want to dps, suck it up and move on.

[Atoli]

Personally, I think it's more interesting and fun to have to heal AND dps vs just 100% healing uptime anyways.
Even when I have to heal all the time, it's just that, casting healing spell after healing spell with a bit of helpful skills sprinkled over it.
Nothing I have to really balance, or strategize about. No big drawbacks.

But every time I enter CS, I make a decision. Is it worth it? Can I risk it? How long can I keep this up? Which skills should I have on hand, how much dmg do the opponents do per enemy GCD, so I know when to switch back?
The amount of "healer-thinking" is so much more than if I could just brainlessly spam heal, heal, heal all the time.

That said, I really enjoy it when normal content has a bit more healing requirements than the current average. Like Weeping City, for example
Definitely requires more (and more aware) healing than other non-savage content while still allowing for the freedom to not JUST heal fulltime.

[Gemina]

Look, this game is not going to force healers to heal all the time in casual content. Ever. If you want to heal all the time they have made content for that, go do it and stop asking them to change the way the healing jobs are set up and the balance of the game because you don't like it. There are plenty of games out there where you can be semi afk and spam heals every turn if that's what floats your boat. Ffxiv is not like that and will never be like that because the casual player can't handle it. So adjust and suck it up, or move along. In case you haven't noticed most healers enjoy this meta....

I think healers from both sides of this crazy fence enjoy how FFXIV healing is set up. The game provides some of the most versatile healers in any mmo I've played. Healing doesn't need to be made more difficult, current content doesn't need to change. What needs to change with the current healer meta are the attitudes.

Healer DPS is strong, and assuming the healer can handle both duties, it brings a great benefit to any group, and without question should be encouraged. DPS pushers, understand that this benefit is a luxury and until content is released that requires healer DPS to clear, healers should NOT be pressured or told to do it. And even more than that, they should not be made to feel like they are inadequate. Making people feel less than yourself is the very definition of bullying. Pushers please try to understand that there can be legitimate reasons why a healer does not enter Cleric and may not be due to laziness or selfishness. I'm not saying this doesn't exist, but the pushing isn't going to get you any closer to increasing the ratio of good/bad healers you group with. It is completely counter-productive.

Heals only healers. Always strive to improve your game. It should be a great incentive to know that if you can handle both duties, you're going to be a healer that groups only find by climbing to the top of the apple tree. You put yourself in contention to not just be a great healer, but an elite one. Try to see that not all DPS pushers are bullys, and some do so because they are well aware of the benefit of utilizing your entire tool kit. I think if you simply say, "I'm not too comfortable stance dancing, but I will try." You'll get patience and understanding from most, even if you do mess up. Messing up, is part of the learning process. That is a true fact.

I might be idealistic by saying that I think we can all get along, but I will continue to hope that the day comes that we do.

[Yona87]

Personally, I think it's more interesting and fun to have to heal AND dps vs just 100% healing uptime anyways.
Even when I have to heal all the time, it's just that, casting healing spell after healing spell with a bit of helpful skills sprinkled over it.
Nothing I have to really balance, or strategize about. No big drawbacks.

But every time I enter CS, I make a decision. Is it worth it? Can I risk it? How long can I keep this up? Which skills should I have on hand, how much dmg do the opponents do per enemy GCD, so I know when to switch back?
The amount of "healer-thinking" is so much more than if I could just brainlessly spam heal, heal, heal all the time.

This.
Gameplay is much more fun and challenging when you are weaving dmg in between heals.

[Nicobo]

IMO the reason for a healer doesn't need to "actually healing" is becasue the party members good, not because the healer good. ^^;

[Gemina]

IMO the reason for a healer doesn't need to "actually healing" is becasue the party members good, not because the healer good. ^^;

Exactly! it isn't too far fetched to say that hardcore healers actually want things to go wrong so their response time is put to the test. It is this reason why I have 20+ clears under my belt for hated instances like Qarn, Aurum Vale, and Titan HM/EX. These instances in particular from my experience are guaranteed derps and healers need to pull more than their own weight to clear. This doesn't tell me that the DPS suck, or the tank sucks. It tells me that WE AS A GROUP need to do better even if that entails me telling a DPS that standing in big red circles makes my job harder than it needs to be.

To me, a good healer is completely in-tune with the current situation. They know whether the next best move is a cure, a nuke, an HoT, OR to actually wait a few seconds to respond to whatever happens after that mob's cast bar hits 100%. They're proactive based on what they know, and reactive based on what they don't. These are the BEST healers. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with their ability to DPS.

[_slowpoke_]

What needs to change with the current healer meta are the attitudes.

Yep, the attitude needs to change that striving for improvement of yourself and others and being required to do more than the absolute minimum is "bullying", like you try to say it is. This is part of the reason people in this game are so bad. Nothing requires them to improve by design. There's no real difficulty curve. So now we, the players, should also stop requiring improvement? How about no?

DPS pushers, understand that this benefit is a luxury and until content is released that requires healer DPS to clear, healers should NOT be pressured or told to do it

For the umpteenth time, the fact that healer DPS is not strictly and numerically required to beat bosses has nothing to do with this. Healers should absolutely be told to DPS. If they cannot handle DPSing and healing, they should either move on to another role or accept that they are a mediocre healer. Don't try to make sub-par play acceptable, we have enough bad players as it stands.

And even more than that, they should not be made to feel like they are inadequate.

But. They. Are. They are playing on a level of a DPS autoattacking, or a tank spamming Flash. That is literally what a heal-only healer is doing. The absolute, bare, minimum required contribution. That is the very definition of inadequate.

Making people feel less than yourself is the very definition of bullying.

By the twelve, no, it's not. By your definition, criticism is bullying. Stop trying to paint people who want and require more than the minimum contribution from people as "bullies". You're basically name-calling because you have no arguments.

Pushers please try to understand that there can be legitimate reasons why a healer does not enter Cleric and may not be due to laziness or selfishness.

There aren't, and you haven't even tried to provide any. Also, pretty much all other reasons people have provided here or elsewhere reduce to either or both of laziness and selfishness, including the unwillingness to improve.

It is completely counter-productive.

On the contrary, what you are doing is counter-productive. You are advocating sub-par playstyle as acceptable, or even "great". That's not gonna help anyone improve, because it allows people to sit comfortably on their minimum contribution thinking they are good players.

We need to call bad what is bad, and start with ourselves - that's how I begun as well once I realized healing in this game is different from all other similar games I've played so far. The first step to improvement is realizing you have to learn (and to keep this mindset, because there's always room to improve), and you're not gonna achieve this by telling people that they are being great and good healers when they are not.

You put yourself in contention to not just be a great healer, but an elite one.

The elite healers are those who maximize DPS in the hardest fights the game provides, not those who DPS at all, your definitions make no sense. Again, you cannot be a good or even "great" healer without utilizing Cleric and your offensive spells. Hell, you can't even properly learn to heal without DPSing, as I've pointed out multiple times in this and/or other threads.

I think if you simply say, "I'm not too comfortable stance dancing, but I will try." You'll get patience and understanding from most, even if you do mess up. Messing up, is part of the learning process. That is a true fact.

This is about the only thing in this entire post I will agree with. I will absolutely have patience and understanding for someone who actually tries, because that means they are willing to improve, instead of expecting the rest of the party to carry them. Willingness to improve is step 0 to becoming a good player. And yes, failure is crucial to learning, because continued success makes people complacent.

I might be idealistic by saying that I think we can all get along, but I will continue to hope that the day comes that we do.

As long as you keep up this nonsensical, argument-free defense of bad play in the name of not criticizing people for said play, no, we're not gonna get along. Please stop, you're not helping.

[Fernosaur]

Healers and tanks are the ones that catch flack for not doing something that isn't required of them. I mean the same people ripping tanks apart for not using cooldowns are the same people who say healing in this game is ridiculously easy. Doesn't something about that seem broken to you? But the SMN who doesn't cast raise to help the healers out? A party specific ability, btw? I hear crickets.

So why wouldn't the poster you quoted or any other healer for that matter feel the way they do? Thank goodness they didn't give us any kind of tanking ability or we would be expected to do that sh*t too. You know, because it's part of the "tool kit". The current meta is feeding those with these expectations with a silver spoon, and healers - good healers, are becoming more and more bitter as a result.

As a healer, perhaps I should expect other players to bring potions and medicines to cure and cleanse themselves, because you know? It's well within their capability to do so?

Erm I feel like you're taking my post slightly out of context, as the poster I quoted seemed to be very vitriolic about their perspective of DPS and Tanks and the responsibilities they carry. As a little pre-post addendum to that last part, however, I will say that I would actually love it if people brought potions and medicines to cure and cleanse themselves, because that'd be an extra GCD I could use on Broil, but that's entirely besides the point.

TL;DR incoming:

Tbh healers and tanks get flack in every game no matter what the meta for that game looks like. That simply comes with the job, and that's also why there is always a shortage of tanks and healers in most games. I mean, yeah, this game has an imbalance on the number of classes available for these roles vs DPS classes, but that's besides the point.

I just want to make something clear. I am definitely against harassing people, insuting them or demanding things from them that they don't want to do if it's not absolutely necessary. I will never give shit to a healer for not DPSing in Duty Finder, nor will I give shit to a tank for not using CDs, even struggling to keep hate. If anything, if I notice they're struggling with the basics of their job I'll ask if they want advice and offer it to the best of my ability. For DPS, I only really play SMN, so there's not much I can offer as advice to improve their damage if it's too low. I have noticed that a lot of people that post in this thread are against the style of play perpetuated by the current healer meta because they have been on the receiving end of harassment from other players, and that is really terrible, and on behalf of the healer population that actually supports healer DPS meta, I apologize for the shit you've been put through. I know I have said people that willingly avoid DPSing as healers are lazy and selfish, but I never intended to personally attack anyone with that opinion. I will elaborate on this point later, though.

However, and this goes to you folks who seem to be really put down by the healer DPS meta: Don't use the forums as an absolute representation of the community in a social sense, and don't let the meta discussed in this place kill your fun in playing a healing class. BUT, also try to think about the multiple opinions given out here, and the arguments offered. Quoting the mother crystal, I will say: "Hear. Feel. Think."

I know what this feels like because it was awful being a Paladin main back in 3.0 and 3.1 and coming to the forums to read everyone saying how shitty and worthless the class I loved so much was, simply because it couldn't keep up with the other Tanks' DPS. I've always liked playing turtly, super tanky classes in every game, and it was kinda sad realizing that my preferred style of play was very sub-optimal in FFXIV. If I learned one thing from that whole thing, though, is that the forums are here for discussion, and no matter what side you stand on, there is always something to be learned or at least pondered about stemming from these discussions, regardless of how heated, condescending and vitriolic they get.

In the end, I learned to embrace the DPS aspect of tanking, because it is an interesting part of the game that brings more to the amount of things you can master and learn. And in the end, using proper turtling skills to help deal more damage ends up being much more satisfying for me because it means I have learned to be good at this game's particular style of tanking. I had a similar learning curve with healing as well, and now I have learned to find satisfaction in the massive damage I can put out while also keeping the party alive, preventing wipes in bad pugs, and even carrying bad players.

That said, I reinforce my opinion, where I most definitely NOT agree with healers who refuse to DPS. Simply because it's like, for a lack of a better comparison coming to my mind atm, someone refusing to use drifting boosts in Mario Kart. It takes some (pretty minimal) skill, but if you have that skill, why impose an unneeded handicap on yourself? This is the way the game plays, and that's fine. If the game had stupidly high eHP checks on casual content, like Ragnarok Online did, for example, then anyone willing to play a healing class would have to be in for that particular style of play, because that would be optimal for that game.

You're being given this big toy box, and instead of enjoying it for what it is and having some fun, you're wishing it was a different game, and complaining that the red bricks aren't blue because you like that color better. And this isn't about conforming to low standards either, because the current healer meta in FFXIV isn't objectively bad or poorly made. It is what it is, and whether you like it or not is entirely dependent on opinions. I'm afraid that you either have to let it grow on you, or just discard it entirely.

In the end, no one can really force you to play in X way if you don't want to, and if your final word is "I don't wanna DPS because I don't have fun that way," or "because I'm not really interested in pushing my skill in this game," well, so be it! But as someone said earlier, you have to own up to the social and technical consequences of knowingly taking this choice. I, for one, kinda roll my eyes a little bit when I read Scholars talking about minute DPS gains from sub-stats or super optimal CD usage, but hey, that's how they roll, and that is a limit that I'm not yet willing to push myself into. If someone's gives me shit about not maximizing my DPS as Scholar, well, I'll take it, but unless I ever feel like doing that, I won't really go there unless my static group asks or demands it.

Edit: One final clarification. Gemina, I know I quoted your post particularly, but I'm not specifically directing any of this at you. I'm mostly trying to speak to the posters that are hating on the healer DPS meta, and also to those who have posted saying they're turned off by the same thing. Peace!

[Acantha]

People can expect it out of you all they want but it's your game.
If mana becomes an issue, back off on anything but healing since that is the focus of your job.

This exactly. It's probably already been said but personally, I use shroud when I get to around half MP and if i'm using more MP more quickly than I can regen it then i'll lay off the DPS and focus on healing since that's my priority. At the end of the day, most people will appreciate any contribution to DPS but no one should expect it, you're there to keep them alive! Of course the upside to DPS is that the mobs will go down a bit quicker which will cut down on the amount of healing you have to do. So... tl;dr - do what you feel comfortable with, it's a game and it's meant to be fun

[FeliAiko]

I do agree that casual content is fine, but to be fair it would be nice to see more actual healing in said savage content. Our raid group always ends up with me DPSing 90% of the time while our AST solo heals with the fairy. And I'm not talking about farming, even during progression I was mainly DPSing. Not that it was even needed, but why would I just stand there overhealing everyone? xD

I love DPSing as a SCH, but even I would like to heal a bit more in raids. Either heavily increase some damage output in raids, or just go all out and give healers a more interesting DPS rotation.

If you want to 'see more healing' then why don't you coordinate with your AST so you both share healing (and by extension, DPS) responsibilities, instead of dumping it all on them? Trade your Broil casts for heals instead, then your AST can actually get in more damage of their own for higher raid DPS.