DPSing as a healer

[Normalizer]

I don't know, i get no error from those macro. I will test it again and see, but the macro haven't failed me before though.

Edit: Ok after testing it again with wait.2, .3 and .4 i would say .4 works too i think, it has no pop up error either. strangely though since i remember i had to use .2 before. Maybe they made some change about macro, embrace and fairies queue somewhere along the line I will update the other post too.

A note though, with .4 you probably don't want to have use full 14 lines of the macro. i think best is to limit it to only 4-5 times (16-20 sec duration of embrace spam).

[Normalizer]

Thanks for the explanation Rongway, i used that a lot but never really saw that reason behind the use of .2. I thought that was because of something else LOL.

[FoxyAreku]

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense. I'll just have to turn off error messages if I use it.

[FinaSel]

I DPS as a healer as much as possible and I never run out of mana unless I need to raise people.
After level 50, you will get so many useful skills to heal people without using mana and also replenish your mana.

This method is for Level 60 WHM:
If you use Shroud of Saints and Asize (+level 50 skill) whenever they are off cooldown you will probably never run out of mana.
In fact, I will usually open with DPS.
Presence of Mind --> Aero III / II (depending on number of mobs) --> Aero I --> Fluid Aura (if a boss) --> Shroud of Saints --> Stone III spam OR Holy spam until Presence of Mind is over. --> Asize (depending on MP and remaining mobs)
The reason for Presense of Mind first is that Aero III has a long cast time. Presence of Mind reduces this significantly. Because Aero I is instant, but has a global cooldown, there is an empty space there. So I use Fluid Aura (instant cast, no global cooldown) and Shroud of Saints (same).
By this time, the global cooldown has just ended, so it's time to spam another skill.

Switch out of cleric stance.
Divine Seal --> Regen --> Tetragrammaton --> Cure (II) if necessary
I've just added a lot of DPS, (should) still have full MP, and the tank should be topped off.
If Holy spamming, I will add an Asize at the end to help regen the lost MP. Asize also deals quite a lot of damage.

Switch back to cleric stance and continue DPS.

Due to Divine seal's cooldown, I will use the AoE heal bubble (forget the name) every other pull + Regen.
When Divine Seal is up, I use that plus Regen.

At boss fights, I generally use Divine Seal + Medica II and Regen on tank.
I rarely find myself using Cure or Cure II in normal dungeons or trials unless the tank is a beginner or undergeared.

If I see myself running low on mana I will use a potion, but I think I've only had to do that in Weeping City.

I think 80% of my spell usage is doing DPS on both bosses and trash. Regen and Medica II and the AoE bubble, will replenish so much Hp that there should be so much free time to DPS.

It is more difficult to DPS before 50, but I still just do basically Stone II spam until tank is below 50% --> off Cleric Stance --> Divine Seal --> Regen --> Cure (II) --> On CS --> Stone II spam.
If more than 3 mobs, Holy spam.

[DeadRiser]

It's really not hard to DPS as a healer unless you or the tank is undergeared.

AST/WHM - keep the regens up. SCH - your fairy.

Most of the time in the dungeons, I have half MP from healing and dpsing the entire time. It really does make the dungeon go faster and the rest of the party loves it.

[FeliciaTheSecond]

Lot of good info in this thread for newbies. Great to see! Even though most of what I will say has been said before I guess I'll just serve to emphasize the more important points.

Firstly healer DPS is NOT insignificant. I will regularly outdps bad dps and actual good dps I still do about 70-80% (its on the higher and of the spectrum if I have a good bard or machinist) of the damage they do over the course of a 4 man dungeon. This is almost like having a third dps.

If you're new to healing do start small. Try to do your rotation without cleric stance and start using it once you feel comfortable.

Use Assize/Shroud as soon as possible. Basically if you have the space to absorb the regen (or will be in combat longer than the duration in Shroud's case) use it. That person that said WHM's mana issues stem from your party members is spot on. I never have any mana issues if my group is on point and in 4 mans I am dpsing maybe 90+% of the time.

Advanced tactics: Spell/Ability Queueing - I don't know if this is common knowledge or not but you can activate almost any oGCD (Or stance) while casting. At any point during the cast. It will happen immediately after your current cast finishes.

Movement - You can start moving once your cast is roughly 75%-80% through and it will still go off.

[RiisWolf]

Gordias Savage. Where its DPS heavy meta changed the idea of a competent healer from one able to effortlessly keep the party alive to being a 24/7 DPS even if they don't do the DPS part right. I find more and more healers argue that healing comes second, and it doesn't help players who do only heal while doing a superb job at it get noticed or commended. The most frustrating thing is that after all of that, we don't have any more tanks or DPS anymore competent at their damage dealing part than before, and once again, even though fights like A2S is a thing, AoEs are still hard pressed. Even tons of WHMs don't bother with holy (over stone 3 vs multiple enemies) despite running places countless of times.

Heals always come first. Fighting is purely supplementary. This isn't WoW where they actually encourage combat healers by boosting your healing with certain attacks. Cleric stance is just there to make doing things by yourself, such as defending yourself, a lot less dreadful. As if the fact that CS is disabled in PvP, all heavensward healing gear having no accuracy, and mechanics that has no enemy to attack or forces you to save yourself wasn't any indication enough about what's intended and what's not.

[_slowpoke_]

Gordias Savage. Where its DPS heavy meta changed the idea of a competent healer from one able to effortlessly keep the party alive to being a 24/7 DPS even if they don't do the DPS part right.

Good healers have always DPS'd, even before Gordias. Gordias just made it that much more apparent that DPSing is part of our jobs as healers, and that it separates the mediocre from the truly good healers.

I find more and more healers argue that healing comes second

This is a strawman argument, because no one argues this. Stop using it. We're saying that you should minimize healing while maximizing time spent in Cleric Stance, because it's the only way to master the art of healing. You will never understand or even master the finer nuances of MP, GCD, and time management if you do not DPS as a healer, because it's unnecessary to do so if you don't, which leads us to your next point...

and it doesn't help players who do only heal while doing a superb job at it get noticed or commended

If you only heal, you are not doing your job properly - you are literally ignoring half your toolkit - and you cannot be good at healing if you refuse to DPS. You might be able to keep the group alive and get them through an encounter, but that is not being a good healer, that's doing the required absolute minimum. You can at best be considered mediocre, and judging from experience, most "heals only" players are really, really bad at their job.

Heals always come first. Fighting is purely supplementary.

No healer who pushes for DPS will contest the first part. It's the second we vehemently disagree with. Again, you are ignoring half your toolkit if you refuse to touch Cleric Stance, you are going to stand around for up to 100% of a fight if you're not DPSing (which is inexcusable on all other jobs as well, so healers don't get a free pass for it either), and you're intentionally being lazy. Fighting is not supplementary. It's part of our job, and if you don't do it, you're a mediocre healer. You can of course accept this and carry on being mediocre, but stop arguing that intentionally playing your job at a suboptimal level can be considered playing well, because it isn't.

This isn't WoW where they actually encourage combat healers by boosting your healing with certain attacks.

How does that matter exactly?

Cleric stance is just there to make doing things by yourself, such as defending yourself, a lot less dreadful.

No, it's not. Hell, the game even tells you this in the Hall of Novices. See signature [edit: apparently my signature disappeared for some reason]. You are expected to DPS if you have nothing better to do, end of story.

As if the fact that CS is disabled in PvP

Cleric is disabled in PvP not because you're not supposed to DPS there (you are), but because it would cause healers to be severely overpowered.

all heavensward healing gear having no accuracy

Yes, which is what you will hear every good healer complaining about while they put 120 accuracy on their relic and meld Accuracy as much as they can. Healer gear having no accuracy is not an indication that you're not supposed to DPS.

and mechanics that has no enemy to attack or forces you to save yourself wasn't any indication enough about what's intended and what's not.

If you're bringing up mechanics now (and I suppose you're talking about A7's healer jail), let me bring up my own examples, which disprove your point.

Calcabrina requires you to DPS as a healer. If you don't, you are objectively playing your job wrong.
Hummelfaust basically required healer DPS before people got their 230 weapons, unless your DPS players were really, really good. The combined ~1k DPS that a good healing duo could push there was the difference between getting to the actual boss and a humiliating wipe on a trash boss.
A6s Blaster has the five mirages phase, where no damage is going out at all. If you are not in Cleric spamming Holy/Gravity in this phase, you are objectively playing your job wrong.

Plus, there's a lot of boss fights where every bit of additional DPS can help to push phases early, thus skipping damage that you would otherwise have to heal. Nidex is a great example overall: the earlier you push add phase, the less Bellowing Roars and cleaves you have deal with. The faster you kill the adds, the less you have to worry about their cleaves, and they hit like wet noodles otherwise. Healer DPS during Fang & Claw highly increases the margin of error. Healer DPS in the last phase can be the difference between getting another Ahk Morn towards the end for which you won't have enough healing CDs (or MP, for that matter), and a kill - not to mention the fact that there is no damage happening for extended amounts of time in the last phase, too.

Finally, to sum this up: it doesn't matter what the devs intended or not, these are the facts. About the only thing the devs have said is that they don't require healer DPS when they tune encounters, because they realized Gordias was overtuned. That doesn't mean you're not supposed to DPS as a healer, it merely means your DPS contribution is not strictly required to beat a boss. Besides, basically every fight in this game is designed in a way that you have downtime as a healer. I could as well argue that this means the devs intended you to DPS there. Again, I don't, because what the devs intended does not matter in this discussion. Player skill is defined by the meta, not by the devs.

[RiisWolf]

This is a strawman argument, because no one argues this. Stop using it. We're saying that you should minimize healing while maximizing time spent in Cleric Stance, because it's the only way to master the art of healing. You will never understand or even master the finer nuances of MP, GCD, and time management if you do not DPS as a healer, because it's unnecessary to do so if you don't, which leads us to your next point...

What part of priorities and supplementary do you NOT understand? If there is no need to heal then obviously something else would be the better thing to do, which is where the supplementary part comes in. Healing comes first. But clearly, with your line of thinking it's one or the other. DPS or nothing. Screw healing, screw everybody counting on me to keep the party alive and going, cause I gotta deal the damage, you say. Why are you a healer if you can't get that part straight??? Healing comes first, then everything else. Healing is number 1 on the list Slowpoke. It's so easy to understand. I wanted to be nice but you either don't know, read it wrong, dug in for some hidden message that just HAD to be there, or intentionally denying evidence and logic just to suit your own side of whatever it is you think you got going on there. Because SUDDENLY supplementary means optional and useless to you, and that because healing comes first that means you never get to DPS at all. Hey lets not use the cards since they're also supplementary. Who feeds you that garbage? Hardcore raiders? No wait, DPS?? Don't tell me -I had enough of the same answer.

And don't try that Hall of Novice with me again, even it says attack when you have time. Something I practically said with healing always comes first and fighting is purely supplementary, but again, NOOOOOOOO, you just have a problem with understanding a simple set of words and jump to extremes because of it. I fight too and you don't see me parading about pressuring new healers into fighting like it's Gordias Savage Week1 where even A1S to A4S so much baby damage that they can MAGICALLY get away with using stone 3 for a minute straight while the tank is in DPS stance the whole time when in reality its Sohr Khai.


Mechanics like Calcabrina's dolls are not healing specific because anyone can be targeted, Calcabrina does frequent unavoidable party wide damage, a damage dealer (unless dead or missing) is always at the healer's side, and targets must be destroyed and a simple medica 2 fixes the pulsing AoE damage as the healer/DPS/tank and tank/DPS/Healer free the DPS/Tank/healer. Great job listing something that's not geared toward anyone in particular, especially one where there's always a damage dealer or tank at your side.

That hummerlfaust only requires healer DPS like Gordias Savage only if your team is undergeared and/or sucks (as you said), like in the first few weeks of Gordias Savage because of the weekly locks, poorly rewarded items, and the very fact they drop 210 gear when the most anyone could have gotten was several pieces of 190s. The real zinger was that Gordias Savage was so overtuned. It was obvious. It was so bad that it was impossible for world's first PLD to win in the first few weeks. People since then have gotten a false sense of this DIRE need for healer DPS just because people in the first weeks needed it when without acknowledging that at first it was literally impossible without them. And just like before it's solution to your undergeared and/or underskilled team and quite possibly because of Midas is overtuned, for it to be required at all. Naturally there is always an exception.

A6S, Odin, anyone with a final attack or a moment that needs to be DPS'd as soon as possible refer to the first sentence. And if you think that this point contradicts the recent point, then you should have someone teach you what an exception is. You don't use a fallacy to prove your points.

The WoW comparison does matter because A) Some players are from that game B) this game's system is inspired by WoW (plus some things with the system still work the same), and C)despite promoting combat medics, none of the HEALER SPECIFIC mechanics require you to kill anything, just like in this game only that they don't promote combat medics.

Actually it does matter what the devs intend because they DESIGN the game. That is a fact; what you said there is false. Otherwise we wouldn't be limited by the constant weekly locks, grinds, designs that stumbles over itself, or even play hard ball with their stance on DPS healers which again, clearly they are against that. Otherwise players like you wouldn't be whining about the lack of accuracy and going to any end to get some, even if it means causing a DPS loss in certain jobs vs a single target just so you can inch it out more numbers. Just because you NOW have a customizable weapon again doesn't change the fact they were not intended to fight in raids at all, and more importantly you only CAN customize your gear with accuracy. Just because you have the option to go one way doesn't mean the devs will design your script based boss fights with healer DPS in mind.

And no, player skill is not defined by the meta. Player skill is defined by what's done and how efficient and most importantly EFFECTIVE it was in getting the job done, and in the end game THAT defines the meta! And yet even in the "content that matter" more people like you are around the corner to tell healers to use stone 3 over holy in a mob of 3 or more enemies -especially in a big pull- long before the boss fight as though every battle is like one of those Gordias Savage where it just babies you with only one enemy to strike most of the time (A2 being the only exception). It's amazing how slow everyone of those healers are at using LB3 when things are otherwise too far gone.

Also I'm bringing up Gordias Savage up in particular because it's in recent memory and it made everything about the meta worse, where again, we get stuck with more hubris, incompetent healers who not only inefficiently and/or ineffectively heal, they don't know how to do the DPS part right which is the same principle as DPS, all while the DPS and tanks can blame their inadequacies on the healer who is typically a white mage because they just had the most powerful in both damage and healing, and not the fact not enough tanks and/or DPS are properly geared and/or skilled to follow the script and/or to do their jobs.

And I meant what I said about "Where its DPS heavy meta changed the idea of a competent healer from one able to effortlessly keep the party alive to being a 24/7 DPS even if they don't do the DPS part right." . . . . even if they don't do the damage part right. I bet that's your idea of a good healer isn't it. Who cares if their meandering about with the attacks, if they sling a few, instantly they are the GOOD healer. No.

Good healers keep the party going, even at the face of things going horribly wrong. Bad healers are the ones who fail at what they think is trivial. Bad healers also don't know how to fight and heal, when their attacks are even simpler than an early Black Mage. Bad healers pretend everything is a perfect world until it suddenly falls apart. Good healers make it a perfect world. Good healers don't need to be told to use LB3 every single time. Great healers CRUSH the challenge in ANY field not just herp derp savage. Great healers not only keep the party going, but significantly boost run times but knowing perfectly well HOW TO FIGHT! None of this," hey look guys I can use stonez 3, I is greatest heals." Any idiot can do that.

This is too long. Bye.

[_slowpoke_]

Screw healing, screw everybody counting on me to keep the party alive and going, cause I gotta deal the damage, you say.

It seems you don't read what I write, because I said the exact opposite. "Minimizing healing" does not mean "screw healing", it means "heal as much as necessary, not more". How much "necessary" is obviously depends on the fight at hand and current situation, and this is true for any content, Savage or not.

Mechanics like Calcabrina's dolls are not healing specific because anyone can be targeted

Uh, in fact, Calcabrina will always target both DPS first, and healer/tank second for dolls, and all her other mechanics are on a fixed rotation. It's not random. Please actually understand mechanics before you try to use them in arguments.

Also, because I'm nice, I'm going to use Calcabrina to illustrate the "minimize healing" I talked about: As WHM with current gear (i220+), Calcabrina can be done with exactly 3 heals if you have enough DPS to skip second dolls (which even mediocre groups usually have at this point, especially combined with the up to 1k DPS you can push as a healer on this fight). You put up a Regen + E4E before she spawns, you Virus the first Knockout while in Cleric, you destroy the first set of dolls entirely on your own with a swiftcasted Holy into Assize, then you put up an Asylum for both the AoE damage and subsequent hits on the tank (which is the only time you usually need to leave Cleric during that phase), and then you use Benediction while in Cleric once appropriate (usually right before the second Knockout after the dolls). You leave Cleric exactly twice during this entire fight if everything goes fine, and even if it doesn't, it's usually nothing that a quick "Cleric off, Tetra, Cleric on" can't fix.

I'm not even going to bother to reply to the rest of your post, because it's nothing but angry ranting about things I haven't said, putting words in my mouth, and patently false things that show your lack of understanding about healing specifically and this game in general.