DPSing as a healer

[_slowpoke_]

~angry, argument free ranting~

Ok, you just proved my point. Come back when you actually have arguments instead of name-calling (you're doing the very thing you accuse me of doing, btw), I'm not gonna bother replying to you anymore.

[Seoulstar]

Ok, you just proved my point. Come back when you actually have arguments instead of name-calling (you're doing the very thing you accuse me of doing, btw), I'm not gonna bother replying to you anymore.

The person made valid arguments and you just shrugged it off as "ranting"...

[Fernosaur]

Yep, the attitude needs to change that striving for improvement of yourself and others and being required to do more than the absolute minimum is "bullying", like you try to say it is. This is part of the reason people in this game are so bad. Nothing requires them to improve by design. There's no real difficulty curve. So now we, the players, should also stop requiring improvement? How about no?

I'm quoting this old post because I think it's the best example of the kind of discussion that usually happens in this kinda thread.

Dude, we're on the same side, but I kind of agree with Gemina about the attitude thing. I think the whole discussion you two are having is stemming from both of you greatly overreacting to each other's arguments and taking them to an imaginary extreme. You're saying she defends bad players and calls them great, even if they're not, and she probably imagines you flaming everyone who isn't in Cleric Stance 80% of the time.

To make this clear, BOTH of these attitudes are bad. Flaming people for not conforming to the meta doesn't help them, it only probably makes them either angry or miserable, and that kind of encounter with strangers hardly ever leads to any productive learning. I agree that you won't help people get better unless you point out what they do wrong, but there is a little something called TACT, and there are also some people who are SUPER sensitive about this kinda thing, and it will really ruin their day. You say that not pointing these things out encourages bad play, and hell, maybe it does to a certain extent, but the game doesn't need everyone in the world to have an above average level of skill. That's why being good in a game is usually called "above average." Sure, you might run into these people, and sure, it may be annoying, but the content you'll likely play with them isn't as punishing for it to matter that much, so there's really no need to make a big deal out of non-DPS healers not wishing to push the limits of their skill.

[Gemina]

Gemina,

You have to remember, in low-level instances, your party will only seldom need healing if your tank has any skill at all. This means you are defending players doing absolutely nothing, or worse, drawing aggro for no reason, while the rest of the group does stuff. That's bad play.

Crud! I wanted to comment to this too, and entirely left it out. I did not mean to and apologize. I did want to point out that I am aware that there are players who KNOW that they are capable of more than just tossing heals, and abuse that they do not have to contribute to DPS to get a clear. I acknowledge that this is absolutely inexcusable and even deserves to strictly go against the ToA. But how to tell these players from the ones with true anxiety issues? I think this is a big reason why the debates are so strong, and it is so difficult to compromise.

I also think some of the issue stems from what I pointed out earlier: The whole 0% contribution needed to make a clear. While this remains a fact, what this also means is that healers have it the easiest when it comes to contributing 100% of what is needed to make a clear. This leaves A LOT of room to do more than what is required. Trust me, it does not have to be beaten in my head. I know I am capable of more than just heals, but due to my experiences with anxiety, and struggles to feel like I am even worthy of queuing up for a duty, I also greatly understand if a healer is just not comfortable adding offensive magicks to their repertoire. I seriously choked up with the whole Sylphie CNJ quest line because of how much I related to it.

I wish I had a magic lenses that could let us all see the intentions of our healers, but unfortunately I don't. The good and bad wear the same clothing, and I guess my attitude leans more towards not caring so much a player deliberately wants to make things harder, it just makes me better at my own job.

[CookieMonsta]

Ok, you just proved my point. Come back when you actually have arguments instead of name-calling (you're doing the very thing you accuse me of doing, btw), I'm not gonna bother replying to you anymore.

Dude, tell that to the people that cleared Gordias lol. /sarcasm Healer DPS not required /endsarcasm. Your statement did not become true until people literally came back with BiS gear or 220+ ilevel. Healer DPS is absolutely required, just not a massive amount. The devs were not that stupid.

[technole]

Dude, tell that to the people that cleared Gordias lol. Healer DPS not required. Your statement did not become true until people literally came back with BiS gear or 220+ ilevel. Healer DPS is absolutely required, just not a massive amount. The devs were not that stupid.

Healer DPS was required to complete Gordias Savage before the full i210 level. How about I just ask did you even clear A3S-A4S pre-nerf as a healer?

[Ceasaria]

I think the problem come from the idea that we have of the three roles : DPS role is to do damages ; Tank role is to block damages, protect people, charge on enemy ; and Healer role is to heal teammate.

Here in Eorzea, the fact to dps as healer is the debate.

The thing I want to know is why this question is not ask for the tank ?
That's right, tanks must avoid other party member to be attacked and should focus the attention of the enemy.
This could be like healer, tank could not do dps, except to keep the minimum aggro.

There is a difference here :
Tank is in front of the boss, healer is not.
Tank has a sword or an axe, healer has a book or a scepter.

I think it's like symbol which indicate the fact you can dps (who want to attack with a book ? ^^)
If you put only a shield in the hand of a tank, is he should attack too or not ?

One other thing is 'damage' is opposite to 'heal' somehow. So maybe it's not concevable for some healers to hurt even if it's monsters.

If the Red Mage is a healer, because he is in the front of the boss for both heal and dps and because he has a rapier, he should attack the boss, right ?

The message I want to transmit is because maybe of these symbols, people tends to think which role is appropriate to do things like dps.
If we could have this Red Mage for healer, then these people who are not for the idea that healer have the possibility to dps and etc., maybe they could see they are wrong or still.

But I want to say, when you are capable to see through this game and understand how it's work, then you know it's not about DPS, Tank and Healer. It's about to use all you have at your disposal to make to game easier, faster and be one with him

[Valmaxian]

I'd say it has less to do with familiarity with content and/or the people you happen to be grouped with and more to do with familiarity and confidence in your job.

Very reasonable. I might add that for some players, having confidence in themselves can be enough, while for others (like me), knowing the content gives that confidence. You did inspire me though - yesterday I took your advice in HB Hard and gave my (fantastic) WAR tank single HoTs, then allowed myself to DPS the rest of the time. It worked out brilliantly. It helped having a great tank, but it felt good fully trusting myself too.

@Gemina - I'm also a very anxious player, and your sentiments really resounded with me. How we approach other players is critical, especially when they are learning. For my part, I didn't even consider adding DPS as a healer until I saw another healer do it in a dungeon (it was like some kind of obvious epiphany). For me, the example was enough.

[_slowpoke_]

The person made valid arguments and you just shrugged it off as "ranting"...

Which would be? Nothing in that post was something that hasn't already been disproven multiple times before, by me and others. That's why I'm still waiting for arguments. I haven't seen any that haven't been ripped apart already.

[FunkyBunch]

SNIP

The ROOT of the problem is that Healer is a misnomer in this game. This game was designed with "Healer" DPS in mind. (Case in point, Healer DPS was required for Gordias Clears, the Hall of the Novice Training, that Cleric Stance even exists at all)
Yes you are the only class that reliably heal and heal others.

But in this game each healer was designed as a Hybrid. It's the green box and the name "healer" that makes people think they don't need to do DPS.
In reality they should be called "Support" and have a yellow background. Then this whole issue would not even have arisen.

In the game, RIGHT NOW, the game SPECIFICALLY TELLS YOU to DPS when no one needs healing. That's the developers trying to fix the bad players. And yet we still have players arguing that they are good when doing WORSE THAN THE TUTORIAL tells you to do.