DPSing as a healer

[mp-please]

FFXIV is a video game, you play it to have fun. Being bossed around by people isn't really my idea of having fun.

The fun argument doesn't work for this, you're literally idling half of the time and either looking elsewhere, straight out blanking out or pretending to do anything by running/jumping around or by spamming the hell out of heal. The last one can even be easily done with a macro to heal every 3/6 seconds.

And you did said yourself, xiv is a game and like every game it has its way its meant to be played. Healers are meant to stance dance just like brd/mch and tanks, you're only bossed around if you don't play the game.

[KaitlanKela]

Gemina,

I have come to appreciate your viewpoint. Your argument is basically that this is a game on the internet, you should keep your expectations nice and realistic for the context (i.e. low). It's fair. The gaming community is full of lazy people because this is what they do for fun. Many people don't wanna put forth effort when they're trying to have fun. They just want a nice, relaxing, laid-back experience. Furthermore, if the run is taking 90 minutes, it's clearly more than just the healer doing something wrong, so that's not even a good standard. Also, people are allowed to make mistakes. How else do they learn and push the envelope of what they are capable of?

The problem with this is we're really not trying to address the lazy people who are just gonna be lazy. We are addressing the misconception that standing around doing nothing because you've kept the party at full health is GOOD. It's the bare minimum. The bare minimum is not good. Going above and beyond is good. We are simply trying to encourage people to go the extra mile. Generally people who come to the forums do care about the game a lot. I'm inclined to think that there's a significant group of people who might be persuaded to try to use cleric stance if they thought it was necessary but they are currently convinced it's not. Encouraging people to grow as players in healthy for the community.

And if you can clearly distinguish between the healers that care and the healers there to be carried, you can feel a lot more confident when you vote dismiss one. Again, you may not do that, I may not even do that, but it's within someone's right to and we should be prepared for that inevitability instead of pretending like people are always going to play nice. Right now, if I see a tank or a dps spamming one skill or autoattacking/idling, I'm probably calling them out, even in the dungeon. I'm more lenient with healers because of this common notion that it's okay and they may legitimately not know. I'd like to get the information out there and level the playing field a little bit. The community (while it would be nice to) doesn't have to and shouldn't have to tolerate lazy play.

[Gemina]

Gemina,

I have come to appreciate your viewpoint. Your argument is basically that this is a game on the internet, you should keep your expectations nice and realistic for the context (i.e. low). It's fair. The gaming community is full of lazy people because this is what they do for fun. Many people don't wanna put forth effort when they're trying to have fun. They just want a nice, relaxing, laid-back experience. Furthermore, if the run is taking 90 minutes, it's clearly more than just the healer doing something wrong, so that's not even a good standard. Also, people are allowed to make mistakes. How else do they learn and push the envelope of what they are capable of?

The problem with this is we're really not trying to address the lazy people who are just gonna be lazy. We are addressing the misconception that standing around doing nothing because you've kept the party at full health is GOOD. It's the bare minimum. The bare minimum is not good. Going above and beyond is good. We are simply trying to encourage people to go the extra mile. Generally people who come to the forums do care about the game a lot. I'm inclined to think that there's a significant group of people who might be persuaded to try to use cleric stance if they thought it was necessary but they are currently convinced it's not. Encouraging people to grow as players in healthy for the community.

And if you can clearly distinguish between the healers that care and the healers there to be carried, you can feel a lot more confident when you vote dismiss one. Again, you may not do that, I may not even do that, but it's within someone's right to and we should be prepared for that inevitability instead of pretending like people are always going to play nice. Right now, if I see a tank or a dps spamming one skill or autoattacking/idling, I'm probably calling them out, even in the dungeon. I'm more lenient with healers because of this common notion that it's okay and they may legitimately not know. I'd like to get the information out there and level the playing field a little bit. The community (while it would be nice to) doesn't have to and shouldn't have to tolerate lazy play.

Thank you so much for opening yourself up to another perspective. And I can show the same respect. I understand and agree with many of the viewpoints stated by the pushers. They have stated cold hard facts about the benefit to utilizing your entire tool kit, and striving to be more than just an 'ok' player capable of doing the bare minimum. I have not, or at least I hope not, invalidated any of these viewpoints as a result of being in a heightened emotional state and exhaustion. If I have I am truly sorry.

Unfortunately, since so many of us, myself included have attacked and attacked, and haven't been receptive to different viewpoints, all we have accomplished is rearranging furniture on the titanic. I believe all of us are capable of more than that.

The thing is, I agree completely with many of the things the pushers state. Including that dungeon runs can go faster, and mobs can die faster. "Can" is the keyword here as an efficient dungeon run is entirely contingent on those who are optimizing their jobs by doing more than the bare minimum are doing so proficiently. This is not always the case. If a DPS healer is not keeping up with heals, mitigation, and cleanses as a result of staying in Cleric, or are having restorative magicks severely crippled, they are truly hurting the group. More so opposed to if they are just healing, which really isn't hurting the group, just making things less efficient.

Now, the only way we get better at optimizing our roles is by putting things into practice. Mistakes will be made, and they need to happen so we learn from that. In this sense, I totally understand the expectation to at least try to add more than just the bare minimum when grouping. But a player who wants to get better, who strives to be able to participate in the harder content, they will do so. Keeping expectations for DF groups at the bare minimum leaves more room to appreciate those who DO strive for more, instead of making it a standard that nobody does.

All I am proposing is that in the process of pushing for players to achieve more, let's not push the capable players away by making them bitter, or outright afraid to run the harder content. So many healers out there who are more than capable of running the harder content already feel like they are not good enough despite the fact that they do both duties and do them well. They know and have conformed to the current meta, but still won't run the content. This isn't entirely on the community, and they likely have self esteem issues that have transferred into the game, but if any of these players come here and see if the healer isn't DPSing they are bad, it is not going to help them. These are not encouraging remarks to make.

As someone who had a lot, and I do mean A LOT of difficulty transitioning from a heals only healer to a true healer/DPS hybrid, I have received the most encouragement from those who lead by example. I was never told to do it. I was never told I was bad if I don't DPS. I was told I could be great if I do, and shown that healers who can do both are some of the best players in FFXIV.

Again, thank you, and I wish you the best of luck in your Eorzean travels!

[KaitlanKela]

It's also worth point out that this is a multiplayer cooperative game. A truly considerate person who was just looking for a leisurely pastime without any pressure to perform would be better off finding a single-player game in which their under-performance doesn't adversely affect the team's experience. That's like playing on a soccer team for fun, but not putting in full effort and being surprised and/or hurt when your coach and teammates are disappointed in you and tell you to do better. Sure, it's a game and its only for fun, but your team is still relying on you and there's an implicit assumption that you signed up to give your best effort.

[Subsonic_GFX]

i dont enjoy dpsing as a healer at all.

[KaitlanKela]

i dont enjoy dpsing as a healer at all.

Why not? Have you tried it at all? For how long? I noticed your main class selected was Summoner level 49. Is your main healer a scholar, then? And if you're not max level it is safe to assume that you haven't been playing the game all that long?

Basically what I'm getting at as, with anything, it's not very fun when you're not good at it yet. But just like anything it takes practice. Luckily, SCH is really flexible, since you have strong shields to work with and the directed HoT in your fairy. I'd encourage you to practice it some more. DPS is an expectation for anyone who wants to be good at their role. If you refuse to do it, you'll be putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Best of luck!

[Gemina]

I also wanted to add one more thing that might be helpful. It's another analogy similar to Finasel's which I felt was really good encouragement.

When I was learning to play piano, I had no problems learning the right hand portion of a measure, and no issues learning the left hand. The problem was trying to put both together, which was a learning process all on its own. It's kind of the same with healing and DPSing. We can look at learning the right hand as 'healing', and learning the left hand as 'DPS'. After becoming proficient at both, it is time to put both together to bring out the song's true potential. One hand sounds nice, and is pleasant. Same with the other. But together? Amazing!

And that's what healer/DPS is. It is truly a harmony of performing 100% in each role which makes you ridiculously powerful.

[KaitlanKela]

I've always agreed that 1) sacrificing heals for dps isn't acceptable, the heals much be stable before we can even have this conversation and 2) tolerance and tact are preferred to harsh logic even when true.

That said, the understanding of the meta needs to remain where it is. If the understanding is that heals only is good and dps is great, that doesn't encourage growth as much as the truth: dps is good and heals only is underperforming. Coddling people also doesn't prepare them for the eventuality that the not tolerant people on the internet may confront them about it. If we're up front and honest, people are prepared. Knowledge is power.

[Gemina]

I think we might be able to agree that heals only is not necessarily good, but good enough. Again, I would really hate for being proficient at both to become something that is underappreciated because it is so standard. That is what I am really afraid of. I don't find handling both duties to be easy at all, especially as WHM. Not even in casual content. Hell, it makes HoN significantly more difficult.

But I do agree that coddling players is counter-productive, supporting them however is not. A lot of power comes with knowledge for those willing to learn it. Let's hope most are.

[KaitlanKela]

Again, I would really hate for being proficient at both to become something that is underappreciated because it is so standard.

Well, I both agree and disagree. I would hate if the only reason people praised and comm'd good healers was because they contrast with the bad ones. An objectively good player should earn praise on their own merits, not relative to anyone else.

But at the same time, it's more important to me that the community is growing and improving, challenging themselves than to recieve praise for any one person's personal achievement. In fact, if all the healers sufficiently good, we may see an increase in the difficulty of casual content, and that would really make me more happy than anything.