DPSing as a healer

[Gemina]

So would people be okay with a tank who grabbed hate then did nothing but auto attack?

He has hate, he's doing his job right?

What about a DPS who just pressed buttons at random and never used buffs?

They're doing damage, so they're fine, definitely not bad or lazy at all.

Sure people are entitled to play however they want in solo play, but in groups, you should be expected to do the bare minimum. If you refuse, well then fine, but don't expect people to be nice to you about it. You will be called lazy and bad-because that's exactly what you are being.

My expectation of tank: Willingness to learn mechanics if they don't know them. Lead the charge. Control the pace. Keep ugly mobs off of me. Try your best to avoid avoidable damage. *commendation earned
My expectation of DPS: Willingness to learn mechanics if they don't know them. Respect the tank's pace. Kill ugly mobs trying to kill the tank. Try your best to avoid avoidable damage. *commendation earned

There is only one role in this game that I expect to DPS and it belongs to the DPS classes of this game. From my experience, it takes a whole lot more than tanks and healers not contributing to DPS to seriously make things bad news. And I invite you to look at those expectations I listed above. It really isn't difficult to differentiate between players who indeed are doing only what is required, and those that are REALLY screwing things up. I have always struggled with clears when players do not perform their PRIMARY role in a group. i.e healers who don't heal, tanks who don't tank, and DPS who put up lousy numbers.

I can't be bothered monitoring if a tank is using CD's and switching stances. You know what I do notice though? When a tank decides to feed a mountain buster to the entire group. If the DPS check is met, I don't care how a DPS member goes about doing it. What I do notice? When they eat AoE like they're free donuts, because nothing reduces their DPS output more than taking a dirt nap. I am too busy focusing on my own duties to worry about what everyone else doing. I notice bad playing, when it's truly bad, because it is truly making things more difficult, and forcing the other members of the group to work harder. This does not happen when a healer does not DPS. No one has to contribute more DPS because the healer isn't doing it.

[FoxyAreku]

No one has to contribute more DPS because the healer isn't doing it.

Um, you may want to rethink this statement, because that is EXACTLY what it means when a healer doesn't DPS, that other people will have to do extra. XD

[FunkyBunch]

Poster stated that players are bad if they can't perform at the HoN level. So I went and cleared it using only heals.

As for you, as long as your killing stuff and not yourself, you're a-ok in my book. I'm not going to tell you how to play YOUR job.

I said if they can't perform at the level the Hall of the Novice TELLS you to that makes them terrible.
I didn't say only pass it or that passing the Hall of the Novice was enough.

I don't understand the sheer amount of effort spent to justify being bad at being a Healer.

The game tells you what the minimum expectation of a Healer is. You want me to ask? Fine:

Can you please stop justifying bad play, stop justifying playing worse than SE suggests in the Hall of the Novice, and please start being a better "Healer" and helping others be better healers.

[Gemina]

I said if they can\\'t perform at the level the Hall of the Novice TELLS you to that makes them terrible.
I didn\\'t say only pass it or that passing the Hall of the Novice was enough.

I don\\'t understand the sheer amount of effort spent to justify being bad at being a Healer.

The game tells you what the minimum expectation of a Healer is. You want me to ask? Fine:

Can you please stop justifying bad play, stop justifying playing worse than SE suggests in the Hall of the Novice, and please start being a better "Healer" and helping others be better healers.

I know what you said. You don't have to repeat it. You even reiterated, in which case I will say again that I cleared HoN using only heals.

On the contrary, I don't understand the amount of energy that you're putting into requiring what isn't required to progress in this game. The game's minimum requirement of a healer is to heal, not DPS. That's YOUR requirement. Seriously. Why don't you guys just own up to that? I can at least respect that. You guys are seriously making the issue WAY bigger than it has to be.

I don't justify bad play. We just have a very different definition of what bad play is.

[amihavingfunyet]

The game's minimum requirement of a healer is to heal, not DPS. That's YOUR requirement.

Just gonna throw in that it's also not required to mitigate any damage that doesn't oneshot you, or to do more DPS than what is needed to finish a fight/duty within a DPS check or time limit. Surely you don't mind 90 minute expert runs? After all that's the minimum requirement to clear them.

[Gemina]

Just gonna throw in that it's also not required to mitigate any damage that doesn't oneshot you, or to do more DPS than what is needed to finish a fight/duty within a DPS check or time limit. Surely you don't mind 90 minute expert runs? After all that's the minimum requirement to clear them.

You want to know what runs have taken the longest to clear from my experience? It's always been the ones where the healer is too focused on DPSing and not healing accordingly. Tank drops, they drop, and then we wipe. The game makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR that heals ALWAYS comes first. If someone drops while you're DPSing, you're NOT doing you're freakin job. And the evidence is right there on the floor next to you waiting for a rezz. In runs where the healer only heals, it hasn't even got close to the 90 minute mark. Ever.

You guys are talking about shaving three minutes off of a run. Three minutes? Oh woe is me, the horror that you have to spend an extra three minutes in a dungeon with your "bad" healer. I have had more fun in this game when things aren't so smooth, but people are understanding and working together. The derps are laughed off, and the players are actually talking to each other. Hell, some even stick around after the boss fight is over to socialize. No one even notices the time spent there. The most boring, chore-like runs for me are the ones that are ran in silence, and take 25 minutes or less. Those 25 minutes are the longest freakin 25 minutes lemme tell ya.

When I queue up, the goal is to get a clear. I don't go in thinking "This better not take any longer than 25 minutes." I go in knowing it may very well take a half hour or more to get that clear, because I KNOW that in DF, I can get any kind of player that exists out there. My expectations for optimal play lies with my static. Not players I don't know and will never group with again.

[amihavingfunyet]

You want to know what runs have taken the longest to clear from my experience? It's always been the ones where the healer is too focused on DPSing and not healing accordingly. Tank drops, they drop, and then we wipe. The game makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR that heals ALWAYS comes first. If someone drops while you're DPSing, you're NOT doing you're freakin job. And the evidence is right there on the floor next to you waiting for a rezz. In runs where the healer only heals, it hasn't even got close to the 90 minute mark. Ever.

You seem to be under the misconception that I said it's the healer's fault if a run takes 90 minutes. All I said was that if you do the bare minimum as healer (keeping everyone alive), why should anyone else do more than their bare minimum (clearing a dungeon in 90 minutes is the bare minimum set by SE since there is no other DPS checks in dungeons).
And please, to have a dungeon run take less than 25 minutes you surely dont need "optimal" play.

[FunkyBunch]

That's YOUR requirement.
I don't justify bad play. We just have a very different definition of what bad play is.

False on BOTH counts. It's not MY requirement. It's literally written into the text of the game.
When you do specifically less than what the game tells you because you don't want to and then try and justify it, that's the objective definition of bad play and justifying bad play.

And also, you deliberately took my post out of context when you said you passed the Hall of the Novice without doing any DPS.

[SaitoHikari]

Man, if some people here even spent as much effort trying to learn about how to balance using all of their skills instead of making long-winded posts on the forums justifying their decision to only use about half of their toolkit, we wouldn't even need this thread.

That said, I do agree over the idea that healer DPS only really exists because this game doesn't really pressure the healers at all outside of raid content. Not only that, but the moment the devs actively try to make non-raid content harder, you get swaths of the community from all three roles reacting negatively to it somehow. People will say they like that the game is becoming harder, while simultaneously avoiding queuing for said content any more than necessary because they don't want to compromise with a community that refuses to learn and takes any suggestion as a personal insult. I can't be the only one that noticed how far less people are queuing up for Trial Roulette now ever since Nidhogg became a thing, to the point where queuing as DPS these days results in near instant pops.

[Seoulstar]

If people could just understand that others play differently than they do. That trying to justify insulting, controlling, and and making people feel like crap over something that isn't even mandatory..that is so little, that barely affects a dungeon isn't a good idea. This thread wouldn't be needed. As I keep saying, if a healer is going to dps. Let them do it at their own pace, calling them out on the forums and insulting them by calling them lazy, bad, etc isn't going to make them do it quicker. It will probably just discourage them even more. If people truly wanted to help those healers become better. They wouldn't be insulting them on the forums to begin with. You don't help people by making them feel like crap. At least I don't.