Controllers, hotbars, cycling... Worried for the future

[Mycow8me]

This is an open discussion for people who play with controllers. This problem may not relate directly to you. You may have a different problem or worry for the future. Feel free to post it and I will add it to the main post.

The Problem
As it stands with the current amount of skills available with most jobs you are at the limit or already past the limit for 2 full hotbars (this does not count mount, potions, or in some cases LB or sprint).

My problem
I REALLY do not want to have more than 2 hotbars on controller for cycling because I can cycle very cleanly between 2 hotbars for combos, macros, buttons, or whatever i need. It gets very tricky when a third hotbar is involved. I tried it, I would mess up frequently. There is more skills coming in the future possibly as well.

Proposed Solutions that would not effect anyone who likes the current system:
There is already one solution already in the game creating 16 additional slots utilizing the L and R simultaneously. I would like to add that some people may not be able to handle a L>R and R>L button order presses for different hotbar extensions with their muscle memory limits or high battle intensity (inability to maintain focus) however I would hope almost everyone can handle a L+R hotbar where it does not matter which gets pressed first. This would only create 8 additional slots but is much more stable for people who accidentally press the wrong button first. I struggle with this some times during high intensity fights.

Another option would be to make L>R/R>L a part of EACH hotbar but this would probably require more coding. I don't know how that stuff works. This would create 32 extra slots for people who can cycle between 2 hotbars.
If it was changed to a L+R only then 8 additional slots would be optional for every hotbar.

Ideas and General thoughts:
My perfect setup would be to make it only L+R (both buttons being pressed and held regardless of order) creating 8 extra slots that can be toggleable to be different for each hotbar you cycle through or the same. Different would mean basically on hotbar 1 you will have different buttons on your L+R bar than you would on your hot bar 2 L+R bar.

To further this idea... There is actually alot of space down there for one at 1920x1080 (LT+RT bar):

The red box would be an area where the LT+RT bar is always shown for cooldown purposes and to assist in usage.

Please understand I'm not trying to force a change on everyone using the current system. There are ways to assist people who are struggling as it is with muscle memory patterns without altering what currently works for others. Keep in mind there will be more skills in the future as our levels go up. We will all need to find something that works for us.

I hope my explanations were clear. If something doesn't sound right or I come across something in the thread that would help clarify or even add onto the main post I'll quote you. Thanks.

Community ideas and thoughts:

we controller users can benefit immensely from merging various skills into macros. By doing that i've managed to cut my ability bloat down to 2 and a half cross bars, and some togglable skills like the venoms for ninja are on a keyboard hotbar since i only need to activate them once.

To add on to this, you will probably want a bar on screen to show you when macrod skills become available again.
However keep in mind:

The problem with using Macros, is that rare occurrence where your action is not triggered. Which, more often than not, occurs at the most inopportune time.

I hope that instead of adding more skills / actions, the devs make the new skills "overwrite" some old ones.

This is just a totally hypothetical example to illustrate a point. Let's image the spell "Stone".
Instead of creating a Stone II, Stone III, Stone IV, Stone V, etc and having them ALL on the hotbar because they do different things and are needed at different level syncs, let's take "Stone" (or any upgrade of "Stone") and instead of adding the next tier spell as a separate spell, make us learn a Stone "upgrade", so "Stone" gains an extra ability, potency boost, or effect.

This could solve the cluttering problem.
We wouldn't have super cluttered hotbars. I wouldn't need to keep Stone, Stone II, Stone III (and in the future, Stone IV) on there because I never know what level synced dungeon I'm going into. One "Stone" which scaled depending on the level sync would suffice.

The "weight" effect could even be scaled in duration according to level.

The furture is definately the most concerning due to what choice they make -if- they choose to add new skills i hope its only 2 and the rest are traits to old ones.
I have certain things on certain buttons across different classes based upon what it does [eg, i have cure/psysick/benefic on the same button] but to make that work and be comfortable along side having what i need im often operating on 3 hotbars. [i even have 5 on sch, its a bit hectic] im good with it but man for others and going further this could be a mess

For people who play multiple classes with similar skills, they are trying to keep those skills that do the same things near or in the same positions on hotbars. This may be more difficult moving forward.

The OP's concern is reaching the limit of it's capability v any new skills/cycling mechanics that come along.
As a pc player I share that concern
Not in regard to the capability of the keyboard - but for this: just how many skills does a class need to make it interesting?
For example 5 x hotbars full of marginally different skills wouldn't be it.
Quality over quantity any day.

[AskaRay]

Do you not use the Extended crossbar controls? They already do the L > R and R > L you're talking about... unless I missed something

[TessaJalloh]

as askaray said, the extended crossbar controls help immensely.

And we controller users can benefit immensely from merging various skills into macros. By doing that i've managed to cut my ability bloat down to 2 and a half cross bars, and some togglable skills like the venoms for ninja are on a keyboard hotbar since i only need to activate them once.

[Mycow8me]

The problem with using the extended crossbar L>R and R>L is that it is put onto a hotbar 1 through 8. I am using hotbars 1 and 2 already and I cycle through them for use.

If i create a L>R and R>L extension on hotbar 8 for example. That automatically creates another hotbar to be cycled through. L>R and R>L cannot become their own seperate extension of hotbar 1 and/or 2 unless i have missed something in the settings over the past year...

I feel like I didn't word the main post well at all ._.

[TessaJalloh]

The problem with using the extended crossbar L>R and R>L is that it is put onto a hotbar 1 through 8. I am using hotbars 1 and 2 already and I cycle through them for use.

If i create a L>R and R>L extension on hotbar 8 for example. That automatically creates another hotbar to be cycled through. L>R and R>L cannot become their own seperate extension of hotbar 1 and/or 2 unless i have missed something in the settings over the past year...

I feel like I didn't word the main post well at all ._.

you can set in the character settings what hotbars auto swap when you hit R1, i have mine set up so i have it do 1 and 3, and i use hotbar 2 for extension.

[Mycow8me]

I think I figured it out, I misunderstood the custom tab for "set selection"...

You can actually set R>L and L>R to be both the same simulating an R+L button press regardless of order too. I don't know why I didnt notice this over a year...

Maybe the wording on the tab was just confusing till i read your post. Gonna try setting it up and see if I can get something that works for me.

Edit: OK, I figured it out. I set up hotbars 1 and 2 for cycling only when weapon is drawn. I got bar 8 left set for L>R and R>L so that no matter which one i press first, it will be the same.

I can't believe for a year I've misunderstood these settings... This is gonna be so much easier to play now, jebus i dunno how i even played before.

[Xlantaa]

Well, they are testing a new add to the extended Cross Hotbar. The double click.

Now we have L and R for 1st hotbar, then L-> R and R -> L for 2nd hotbar. They will add the new one, double click R and double click L for a 3rd hotbar. I think will help a lot, that's another + 16 buttons.

Here, the 1:28:09 https://youtu.be/V1pe9AnqRS8?t=5289

[FinaSel]

I hope that instead of adding more skills / actions, the devs make the new skills "overwrite" some old ones.

This is just a totally hypothetical example to illustrate a point. Let's image the spell "Stone".
Instead of creating a Stone II, Stone III, Stone IV, Stone V, etc and having them ALL on the hotbar because they do different things and are needed at different level syncs, let's take "Stone" (or any upgrade of "Stone") and instead of adding the next tier spell as a separate spell, make us learn a Stone "upgrade", so "Stone" gains an extra ability, potency boost, or effect.

If we are level synced, it would remove that effect for that dungeon.
Once we get "Stone II" we never use "Stone" anymore unless we are in PvP or level synced. The same is true for Stone III.
Why not simply overwrite Stone with Stone II, and when we are level synced it automatically reverts back to Stone?

This could solve the cluttering problem.
We wouldn't have super cluttered hotbars. I wouldn't need to keep Stone, Stone II, Stone III (and in the future, Stone IV) on there because I never know what level synced dungeon I'm going into. One "Stone" which scaled depending on the level sync would suffice!

If they were to implement an "upgrade / overwrite" system, we would just use the downgraded version of that spell or ability when level synced and wouldn't need to remove / switch so many things.

Even now I have 3 hotbars just got all my WHM spells, plus another hotbar for potions and food.

[Xlantaa]

Snip

Weel, you can "cheat" a bit to have this. By using macros. For Example:

/micon "Sonte III"
/ac "Stone III"
/ac "Stone II"
/ac "Stone"

This way, if you have Stone III, use stone III, if you haven't III, then will use the next one, Stone II. Of course, this is annoying because you will read the error message “Stone III” is not a valid action name" all the time on screen...

[Alaltus]

Weel, you can "cheat" a bit to have this. By using macros. For Example:

/micon "Sonte III"
/ac "Stone III"
/ac "Stone II"
/ac "Stone"

This way, if you have Stone III, use stone III, if you haven't III, then will use the next one, Stone II. Of course, this is annoying because you will read the error message “Stone III” is not a valid action name" all the time on screen...

You can uncheck "display error messages when actions fail/display recast timer error messages" in the log window settings.