Solving the Fire Mage Problem

[zana_burwani]

So not sure if this is the right place to post this; But I had an idea for 4.0 black mage to let people do damage with something other than their fire spells. So first off we need a Thunder IV spell since we have 4 versions of fire/blizzard; and then we could learn different stances that change the way our spells work. Like a stance that would make our thunder spells into our big burst damage spells and turn fire spells into DoTs, or just flip fire/ice around. They would all still be equally powerful, it would just allow much greater diversity for black mages so you could be an ice mage or thunder mage if you wanted to; instead of being forced into being a fire mage

[NovaLevossida]

I wouldn't mind a spell glamour system, but summoners still don't have a single egi glamour yet. The real problem with BLM is tied to the core game mechanics where you'll cast fire on Ifrit, ice on Shiva, thunder on Ramuh, etc. because there's no elemental weaknesses or resistances to consider. At the point where Fire IV, Thunder III, Flare, and Blizzard IV might as well be labeled unaspected damage in the tooltip, why not just let you glamour spells then?

[MagiusNecros]

I would love different skill trees that focused on one of the elements. Or even a skill tree that took notes from Ascian Prime and it's Annihilation spell which was mixing Fire and Ice spells together.

I had long entertained ideas to be able to summon the Barghest(or give to me as a damn mount) like in the 60 quest but under our control, or the inclusion of spells like Drain and Breakga which enemy THM/BLM have for some reason. Or even "Dark" spell lines or even a Death spell.

But I think all we are gonna get is an AoE T4 that can't proc TC.

Spell glamour system? Will only approve if my fire can be purple and my Flare can look like the Astro's Gravity spell.

[Anubis_Nephthys]

This would solve nothing. One playstyle would be superior and correct. All else would be wrong.

[DeadRiser]

This would solve nothing. One playstyle would be superior and correct. All else would be wrong.

You and 14 others did not understand what he was saying.

Basically a glamour system. You select which element is damage, which element is mp, and which element is dot.

I would be ALL for it. It would make it more interesting to see BUT it causes a problem since there is no Thunder IV

[Rongway]

The idea of rotating the spell functions was presented back at last FanFest Japan (thanks PhalanxField below for jogging my memory).

What I remember of it is a guest proposing to Yoshi-P that there could be elemental staves that rotated the spells so that, for example, a BLM could nuke with Blizzard, refresh with Thunder, and DoT with Fire. There might have been elemental resistances involved, and hence the staves being "required" BLM gear, which Yoshi-P would have shot down.

However, if it were 100% glamoury, and didn't affect gameplay, I would get behind an elemental shift option. If it's entirely about visuals and not at all about playstyle or different rotations, it would be a fun addition with no mechanical or numerical advantage given to any particular element choice. As far as new animations are concerned, we would just need Astral/Umbral Lightning orbs, Thunder IV, Burst (lightning's Flare), a chain lightning type splash (or even just a big crackly orb explosion) for Thunder II when in lightning nuke mode, and a single target ranged animation for Blizzard II when Blizzard is the DoT.

But besides the numerical, technical, and design aspects, there's also the matter of how such a system would affect other players. Seeing a "Fire II" cast bar in the party list would no longer immediately read "I hope this PLD is ready to spam Flash" and "Blizzard IV" would no longer immediately read "OH GODS PLEASE DON'T KILL IT YET". So while there wouldn't be any advantages among the BLMs choosing one element over another, there would be a reduced situation awareness for everyone else.

[PhalanxField]

The idea of rotating the spell functions was presented in a PLL wayyy back in 2013 or 2014. If I find the exact one, I'll update this post.

This guy?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...hanges_slides/

[MagiusNecros]

This guy?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...hanges_slides/

If it's what I think it is wouldn't it amount to the same thing except every time we cast a line of spells we'd have to switch to a different elemental spell line?

I mean we go from Fire to Blizzard Regen and usually apply a Thunder dot already before going back into Fire?

Seems like it would change little to the current BLM playstyle.

Not to mention the fact AF/UI stances are already hardwired into the BLM class.

[Rongway]

Seems like it would change little to the current BLM playstyle.

I'm suggesting exactly a visual change with no functional change to the BLM rotation, and no involvement of elemental resistances, so that you end up with (names used for familiarity)

visually Fire-focused BLM:
Fire III (nuke, immediate Astral Fire III buff) > Fire IV (nuke) > Fire IV > Fire (nuke, possible proc) > Fire IV > Fire IV > Blizzard III (weak nuke, immediate Umbral Ice III buff) > Thunder II (single target dot, possible procs) > Blizzard IV (nuke, refreshes Enochian) with possible extra instant+free Fire III and Thunder III based on procs

visually Ice-focused BLM:
Blizzard III (nuke, immediate Astral Ice III buff) > Blizzard IV (nuke) > Blizzard IV > Blizzard (nuke, possible proc) > Blizzard IV > Blizzard IV > Thunder III (weak nuke, immediate Umbral Lightning III buff) > Fire II (single target dot, possible procs) > Thunder IV (nuke, refreshes Enochian) with possible extra instant+free Blizzard III and Fire III based on procs

visually Lightning-focused BLM:
Thunder III (nuke, immediate Astral Thunder III buff) > Thunder IV (nuke) > Thunder IV > Thunder (nuke, possible proc) > Thunder IV > Thunder IV > Fire III (weak nuke, immediate Umbral Fire III buff) > Blizzard II (single target dot, possible procs) > Fire IV (nuke, refreshes Enochian) with possible extra instant+free Thunder III and Blizzard III based on procs


And AoE bits going
Fire III (single target nuke, immediate Astral Fire III buff) > Fire II (ranged AoE) > Fire II > Flare (ranged AoE) > Transpose (to Umbral Ice I) > possible Blizzard II (self AoE) or Freeze (ground target AoE) if things are about to die
v
Blizzard III (single target nuke, immediate Astral Ice III buff) > Blizzard II (ranged AoE) > Blizzard II > Freeze (ranged AoE) > Transpose (to Umbral Lightning I) > possible Thunder II (self AoE) or Burst (ground target AoE) if things are about to die
v
Thunder III (single target nuke, immediate Astral Lightning III buff) > Thunder II (ranged AoE) > Thunder II > Burst (ranged AoE) > Transpose (to Umbral Fire I) > possible Fire II (self AoE) or Flare (ground target AoE) if things are about to die


for those who just want to throw ice or lightning instead of fire.

[PhalanxField]

Seems like it would change little to the current BLM playstyle.

That's the point. The "rotation" is the same, it's just which elemental cycle you're using.
Rongway is suggesting a purely cosmetic change, while the dev in that old thread was suggesting a similar change to affect gameplay based on elemental needs and/or gear (because casting Fire against Ifrit seems silly). The resulting rotational output of their changes is essentially identical - they just made the suggestions for different reasons.