Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[Klamor]

Sera took that from the healer confession thread where others have said the same thing. He's only bringing what I said in here to fuel his Mattelot witch hunt. Seriously, read his post history. He and his sock puppet follow me everywhere. I don't know whether to feel flattered or creeped out sometimes.

Others in that thread have said worse but it's only because it's me. If Mwynn actually thought it was harassment, he can report the person.

To be fair, you can't pretend to be a shining example of a good player in one thread while at the same time (or, previously) be knocking down that façade in another thread and expect people to not catch on to your being sort of two-faced and having double-standards.

[Laerune]

i really miss the camaraderie and friendship on the forums :P it feels like all feelings that one have for each other is slowly degenerating since wow has become a mass phenomenon.
People seem to care more about numbers then with who they are playing with ^^ its really a shame :P
Its always me me me me me , and nothing else ^^ u should be all ashamed of urselfs ^^

I have noticed this aswell, the forums have been very toxic the past few months. Instead of arguments, players are are trying to demean each other, to show the rest of the community, in their sick way that they are the better player. The way I see it, aslong as they do their basic duties, Tank: Keeps agro and uses their cooldown, DPS: does maxmum damage, Healer keeps everyone alive and all roles : play with common sense, avoid aoe damage etc. Then everything will be fine. If someone wants to finish a dungeon fast, then they can ask their friends/linkshell/free company members to join them and finish the dungeon fast.

Aslong as you play with random players, expect anything, trying to force the standards that you think is right, is pointless. I dps with my healer, but I understand that some players picked the healer role to avoid dpsing and I respect them. The way this game works is, if the majority dislikes the playstyle of someone they can kick them, otherwise, let them play (aslong as they follow the basic mmo rules) as they want.

Atleast one can take comfort that people on this forum are the vocal minority.

[Mattelot]

To be fair, you can't pretend to be a shining example of a good player in one thread while at the same time (or, previously) be knocking down that façade in another thread and expect people to not catch on to your being sort of two-faced and having double-standards.

Good morning. Could you link me to where I said I was a shining example of a good player? It's early and I've not had my coffee to jog my memory. Thanks, bud!

I have noticed this aswell, the forums have been very toxic the past few months. Instead of arguments, players are are trying to demean each other, to show the rest of the community, in their sick way that they are the better player. The way I see it, aslong as they do their basic duties, Tank: Keeps agro and uses their cooldown, DPS: does maxmum damage, Healer keeps everyone alive and all roles : play with common sense, avoid aoe damage etc. Then everything will be fine. If someone wants to finish a dungeon fast, then they can ask their friends/linkshell/free company members to join them and finish the dungeon fast.

Aslong as you play with random players, expect anything, trying to force the standards that you think is right, is pointless. I dps with my healer, but I understand that some players picked the healer role to avoid dpsing and I respect them. The way this game works is, if the majority dislikes the playstyle of someone they can kick them, otherwise, let them play (aslong as they follow the basic mmo rules) as they want.

Atleast one can take comfort that people on this forum are the vocal minority.

FFXI had elitists far worse than this game (even knowing what I know now) and WoW's community had too many kids. When I started playing this game, it seemed much better of a community than the other MMOs. The FC I joined was/is very polite. If someone needs help, you always have at least 2 people saying "sure!" People in random groups were friendly. Once in a great while, you'll get someone who has to make a comment, but not often. People would apologize for making a mistake that causes someone else an issue.

It wasn't until I came to the forums here that I realized how nasty some people are. People stalk/harass others for no other reason than they do not like the way they play a video game. They're not breaking any rules. They're simply not playing a video game the way someone else wants them to.

I totally agree that it's such a great thing that this is the vocal minority.

[Normalizer]

The way I see it, aslong as they do their basic duties, Tank: Keeps agro and uses their cooldown, DPS: does maxmum damage, Healer keeps everyone alive and all roles : play with common sense, avoid aoe damage etc. Then everything will be fine.

Welcome to the thread, i don't know how many % of the posts you read but we were talking about the people who do NOT do their basic duties, which most of the example are: DPS doing way too little dmg (like 30-50% of their potential), or SCH healer afk letting their fairy heals (ofc no one die but it's NOT the healer keeping everyone alive, but their pet).

You can respect a healer who don't want to dps all you want, i don't disrespect them either, but i find it's disrespect to other players in the party when a healer stand around doing nearly nothing (for example casting a cure every 10 sec while the other tank/dps have to work their ass off) and still get every rewards the dungeon give.

[KarstenS]

while the other tank/dps have to work their ass off

This is the case how many times?

Since Heavensward I did run dutys in dutyfinder many many times. The number of runs, where tank and dps did "work their ass off" .... I can count them with just one hand.

But thats already part of the topic.

Lets not head into the wrong direction again and point just to one single role. Thats a which hunt and the wrong focus. Even if there is something that can be done better, its not the BIG weak point of the current playerbase.

[Laerune]

Welcome to the thread, i don't know how many % of the posts you read but we were talking about the people who do NOT do their basic duties, which most of the example are: DPS doing way too little dmg (like 30-50% of their potential), or SCH healer afk letting their fairy heals (ofc no one die but it's NOT the healer keeping everyone alive, but their pet).

You can respect a healer who don't want to dps all you want, i don't disrespect them either, but i find it's disrespect to other players in the party when a healer stand around doing nearly nothing (for example casting a cure every 10 sec while the other tank/dps have to work their ass off) and still get every rewards the dungeon give.

I have been following this thread for a while (even posted my past experience on the first page of this thread), but my comment were mostly directed about the topic of should healers do dps or not and toxic players. I agree that players should do their best (sometimes peoples best is not good enough for other players) and I agree that healers should not stand there and do nothing (as I have said on the first page), if a healer is able to dps, they should. But this is something that is left to the healers themselves.

From what I have read on this thread and similar threads is that alot of players expect random players to play on their level, to have their playstyle. Finding those type of players in a random setting is rare. That is why SE has given us the option to kick players out of the party. You meet a healer that refuses to dps, if you and your fellow group members agree that the healer needs to be kicked, then kick them. What comes after is between the kicker, the kicked and the gm.

Some players want to excel at tanking, healing, dpsing and others want to log in do stuff and log out. If you join a random group, you should expect that anything can happen, you might join a group who shares your playstyle or one where a tank refuses to use cooldowns, a dps is underpreforming, a healer that casts cure I and goes afk each time. SE has given us options to deal with this:

1: You leave group.
2: You kick the player from the group.
3: You avoid random players and play with a group of friends who share your way of playing this game.

So next time when you see a healer that refuses to dps, discuss with the rest of the group, if the healer is still refusing, then kick this healer out. SE has given us the tools to deal with these type of issues.

PS: DPS underpreforming and tanks refusing to use cooldown is still a issue, but I will leave that discussion for another time.

[Colt47]

I don't know, I read the OPs post and feel like from my own experiences that SE just made a lot of jobs too complex to realistically use. This applies double for Damage dealing roles like Dragoon, which was fun up until end game with blood of the dragon being thrown in as a random timer ability. I stated it before in the classes threads, but jobs need to be kept simple at end game regardless of whether they are dps or not. Making DPS needlessly complex wont convince more people to play tanks or healers, they will just play what they want inefficiently or stop playing all together. Thankfully paladin hasn't gone through anything record breaking, but so far my journey to play dragoon has been... fairly mixed. It was great fun UNTIL the heavensward additions.

[Souljacker]

The way I see it, aslong as they do their basic duties, Tank: Keeps agro and uses their cooldown, DPS: does maxmum damage, Healer keeps everyone alive and all roles : play with common sense, avoid aoe damage etc. Then everything will be fine.

Unfortunately this is not the way SE sees it. The way SE is designing content, everyone must DPS at their highest potential regardless of what else is going on. It's part of what made this community so toxic, and I have news for the rest of the folks in this thread: it has nothing whatsoever to do with World of Warcraft. That game is not even in the same general section of fantasy that this one is and has such little crossover that I can't believe folks are still blaming it for this community's behavior.

This community is a product of this idea that all jobs are really DPS jobs, and that's a product of all jobs being able to do some moderate DPS so they could actually get through solo content without parties. I think this was a mistake and they should have figured out some other way to get people through content.

In XI you would never give a White Mage a hard time for not spamming Holy. Never. I stopped even playing White Mage in this game because if I am going to be a DPS job, I'll play an actual DPS job and not have to worry about healing anyone or anything else. There's no need for the added stress of healing the party, baiting or doing mechanics, and getting yelled at afterward because some jerk has ACT pulled fullscreen and saw that I didn't cast enough Holys. Regardless of how well you do the actual intended role, you are being measured by how much DPS you do you so you'd better be stance dancing into Clerics\Sword\Deliverance. Your role isn't really your role, it's a sidequest.

[HulveinBlitz]

Stuff

pls no. DRG at 50 was ridiculously boring. It wasn't complex no, but majority still couldn't do it right.. despite it having one of the biggest guide topics on this forum.

People pick up a role > level it a bit > find out its not as easy as it used to be at 50 > complain dps too hard at endgame.

Give the job a chance, then maybe it won't seem so ridiculously complex?

[MagiusNecros]

I don't know, I read the OPs post and feel like from my own experiences that SE just made a lot of jobs too complex to realistically use. This applies double for Damage dealing roles like Dragoon, which was fun up until end game with blood of the dragon being thrown in as a random timer ability. I stated it before in the classes threads, but jobs need to be kept simple at end game regardless of whether they are dps or not. Making DPS needlessly complex wont convince more people to play tanks or healers, they will just play what they want inefficiently or stop playing all together. Thankfully paladin hasn't gone through anything record breaking, but so far my journey to play dragoon has been... fairly mixed. It was great fun UNTIL the heavensward additions.

Jobs aren't complex. They are actually really easy to use because they lack complexity. I'd rather there be complexity for all jobs instead of relying on a one and done rotation for ST and AoE.