Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[BorisDaBlade]

TLDR thread.
Let's play out this scenario...... I main smn. I love it, but I wanna try something else for a change. So I level a blm. After a bit of a grind I finally hit 60 and lo and behold, I can use the same gear as my smn. BOOM! Insta i220. Wait, what the hell is fire 4?!?! I can't keep eno up anymore because my rotation changed. Because I'm learning, does that mean I'm not pulling my weight for the week or two it'll take to learn the new rotation? Do I deserve to be harassed because the only place I can learn my new rotation is in ex level content?
Give players a chance.

[Chiramu]

TLDR thread.
Let's play out this scenario...... I main smn. I love it, but I wanna try something else for a change. So I level a blm. After a bit of a grind I finally hit 60 and lo and behold, I can use the same gear as my smn. BOOM! Insta i220. Wait, what the hell is fire 4?!?! I can't keep eno up anymore because my rotation changed. Because I'm learning, does that mean I'm not pulling my weight for the week or two it'll take to learn the new rotation? Do I deserve to be harassed because the only place I can learn my new rotation is in ex level content?
Give players a chance.

There is a training area you can practice rotations on in Dravanian Hinterlands. You shouldn't need to head straight into EX content on a new level 60 without knowing your rotations.

[BorisDaBlade]

Yeah statically sitting still, but even a trash mob aoe can throw everything off when you don't know the rotation or even how to save it.

[alimdia]

Yeah statically sitting still, but even a trash mob aoe can throw everything off when you don't know the rotation or even how to save it.

No one is expecting perfect play, people are expecting you to at least try to push the buttons, a lot of people in dungeons straight out go afk auto attacking or don't even bother trying their most basic rotation, you see their tp or mp never going down, their buffs never up, and likely being outdpsed by tanks and healers.

I know for a fact doing the 2.0 rotation on BLM still does more dmg than what most DF people can pull because they can't pay attention to what's in front of their screen.

It's even worse when they die and they throw the innocent "oops maybe I should close netflix xD" remark, or when they admit they were chatting with their fc/ls mid battle.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

TLDR thread.
Let's play out this scenario...... I main smn. I love it, but I wanna try something else for a change. So I level a blm. After a bit of a grind I finally hit 60 and lo and behold, I can use the same gear as my smn. BOOM! Insta i220. Wait, what the hell is fire 4?!?! I can't keep eno up anymore because my rotation changed. Because I'm learning, does that mean I'm not pulling my weight for the week or two it'll take to learn the new rotation? Do I deserve to be harassed because the only place I can learn my new rotation is in ex level content?
Give players a chance.

You can practice your rotation on a dummy or with friends. I fate grinded DRG from 30 to 51 in a day and immediately was looking through youtube, reddit and here for the best rotation I could use along the way. I even went ahead and adapted a 60s rotation at that time just to help myself weave in the new abilities as they came since I already knew where they would fit. Basically, with a little effort, you can learn how to play your job without too much difficulty. Nevertheless, it's quite easy to tell people who are inexperienced but trying from those simply being lazy. Inexperienced healers, for instance, may slightly overheal or change to and from Cleric Stance rapidly because they're not yet comfortable. Lazy healers either won't touch Cleric Stance at all or simply stand around doing nothing when there isn't any damage to heal.

You'll find players far more tolerant if they notice you're trying.

[BorisDaBlade]

You all have made some good points about the SSS usage. And also some even better points about the auto attacking afk'ers that this thread is probably more directed towards.

Oh and I wasn't saying anything about, "It's my sub, I'll play how I want!" type attitude, some people just have a harder time playing "optomally" compared to what the community as a whole expects from that class.

[Mahri]

some people just have a harder time playing "optomally" compared to what the community as a whole expects from that class.

The community as a whole actually expects very little and is pretty easy to get along with. Anything posted on these forum threads should never be mistaken for a widely-held opinion, because this is where the vocal minority shows up, usually to complain. (EDIT: It occurs to me that this is probably your point, but still. )

When a person tell another person how to play better or improve, the second player goes in whine mode and call them elitist.

It's all in how you say it, and what you choose to say it about.

Fairly often, though usually when doing lower level roulettes, someone who's clearly unfamiliar with their stuff comes along, and they're pretty obvious -- usually it's a tank that's face-pulling and not standing still, sometimes it's a DPS not doing positionals, sometimes it's a person who isn't avoiding AoEs. So, go like, "<player>, would you care for some advice?" If they answer, or if they don't answer but whatever it is they're doing results in a death (and thereby indicates an obvious mistake), then a simple statement is all that's needed.

Far, far too many people default to sarcasm and derisiveness when dealing with random players. It demonstrates a real life character flaw belonging to that person, whether or not they tell themselves it doesn't count due to anonymity, but sadly can make games like these feel pretty unpleasant.

In any case, giving people feedback, even well-intentioned, ought to be kept limited to obvious stuff. More technical areas like, for example, the minutiae of maximizing one's DPS is, unless they asked for the help outright or are part of a static, none of anyone else's business. The kind of person who scrutinizes stuff like letting a DoT fall off, sub-optimal timing of buffs, etc. wholeheartedly deserves the snide rebuttal. It simply doesn't matter. Very little content in this game is really difficult enough for that to make a real difference to party members.

[Seraphix2407]

The community as a whole actually expects very little and is pretty easy to get along with. Anything posted on these forum threads should never be mistaken for a widely-held opinion, because this is where the vocal minority shows up, usually to complain. (EDIT: It occurs to me that this is probably your point, but still. )
It's all in how you say it, and what you choose to say it about.

Ofc, you don't have to be a ass about it. However, when a person is soooooooooooooooooooooo nice and sweet and the other person says; I don't give a shit, I'll play however I want, mind your own shitty business etc, sits back and let people work hard. Cries when things doesn't go her/his way and start telling people they are shit. Happens too often. TBH this game have more of these players than those ''elitist'' people talk about. Everyone who knows me on my server or other servers I've played on knows this. I can tolarate if people aren't top but doing good, than those who sits back and just want a freebie. If people are like that, they shouldn't whine about it. They have to fix their own attitude first and maybe people stop calling them bad?

I think the other issue is SE doesn't give them a middle content to even try, because the gap on content on this game is simply too big. I can understand that, however I have plenty of friends who doesn't raid hardcore or even raid at all and they are really good players. Look, I have 2 fc members who joined 1 month ago and been playing the game for 3 months? They hit 60 like 1 month ish ago, nailed the DRG/MNK opener and substained somewhat a good dps on a dummy for 3min then you find those who sit back and cry they have to do some decent amount of clicking on their keyboard/pads and just expects everything for free. Like I said earlier, if people wanna be lazy and ungreatful they can find their own group who wanna do that sort of thing or simply get better and get accpeted in good groups.

It's like what you said, the community as a whole don't expect a lot, they expect so so much (being decent atleast). For me I want to play the best each time I try a new class or my main jobs, but if someone is doing decent, that's fine. I just find it super sad when a tank and a healer out dps people who are dps.

[RiceisNice]

TLDR thread.
Let's play out this scenario...... I main smn. I love it, but I wanna try something else for a change. So I level a blm. After a bit of a grind I finally hit 60 and lo and behold, I can use the same gear as my smn. BOOM! Insta i220. Wait, what the hell is fire 4?!?! ....
Give players a chance.

Again, back to what I said about players being sensible on what to expect. At this point, you should at least know that enochian gives you a flat damage boost, and that you can refresh it with blizzard IV. Nevermind that you should at least know how Fire III and Blizzard III works on swapping your astral/umbral state.

Your train of thought does not excuse BLMs at level 60 that alternate between casting fire I and blizzard I to conserve mana, waiting on transpose to swap those states and only using III spells, straight up not using enochian at all, or being an ice mage.

There's playing optimally, learning, and just not giving a shite to your party. Out of those three, it's the last one that bugs me and it's very obvious when it's the case.

[Seraphix2407]

Let's ask ourselves a simple question(s) here. If everyone was playing as bad as a bad player does, would it lead us/you/me to anywhere? You that person who does 500 dps in expert roullettes, the person who does 700 in weeping city? The person who overheals 60% and spam cure 2 when there is nothing to heal? Or the DPS who doesn't keep the dps buff up (heavy trust, etc). If everyone played like you,do you honestly think it would be okay and the most importent key, okay for them to die on every mechanic because they refuse to listen or simply just go with ''I play however I want'' attitude, would you be okay with it? Highly doubt it, because you would mostlikely not even see the gear or things you have right now.


People often forget and there are soooooooooooooooooooooo many people that are aware they are bad but keep getting carried. For me when I do ravana these days and I see a guy doing 600 dps in a group, I could easily kill it fast as we are with or without him, because 600 dps isn't that big in ravana extreme. Does he get carried? Hell yeah, because if the rest was playing like this game, the runs would mostlikely be slower plus bigger chance of wipe fest due to more mechanics. So think before you judge others and tell them to take a piss, because without many players out there with a decent mind you woulnd't gone anywhere. And you know what I call those type of players? Toxic, ignorant and super selfish. Do I care if I hurt their feelings? Not really, your bad attitude and lazynes got you there in the first place.

If you are one of those players who barely have any knowledge but seek it, you should ask or take advice in the first place. Like seriously if you really doubt on your skill or anything like that, first thing you do is ask people or even google for rotations or anything. Many people done it, why can't you?