Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[hnightshade]

Secondly combined mechanics here. Most bosses spam aoes, lines of damage, debuffs, that are designed to keep dps down. By forcing the dps to keep on the move. The dps that can move not a big deal. Casters and the like this hampers the dps dealt. Same applies to heals of course.

So my summary. Mechanics combined with systems that are new take even experience mmo players out of their comfort zones. I didn't find out about the combo skill required for my dps till I was high leveled and it took some getting used to. My dps dropped like a rock till I learned to go bahamut every fight just about. So it's not just newbies. It's the design of things to a large degree. Granted there are some newbies that are everything you claim not gonna argue that. There's always slackers looking for easy loot, hand out, etc. But overall the community I've seen at least on goblin doesn't support that as a whole.

[cammi]

When ever I hear about people screaming about wasting time cause someone is bad I just think " Well what did you expect? That everyone would be on your time table? Or that everyone will be on YOUR expectations of what is being good and not lazy?" I've seen many people of various skill sets in many dungeons no fuck that in many GAMES and all I have to say is, there's no system that can put in place to fix it. You just can't expect that everyone will play to your expectations. It'll NEVER happen that way. If the group is that bad and it pisses you off that bad.. LEAVE. That's pretty much your best option and try again. Or look for people in party finder. Asking a company who wants everyone's money to shut down a good part of their player base is NEVER going to happen.

[Kaeoni]

Bad people will stay bad people if they need help, why should I help? It bothers me right? So I should just ignore it. You don't seem to get the problem, many does get help and just decline it. Many in here say reach a hand out, give them advice etc, it wont work when they are in denial or when people preach that it's all a game (which it is) but however, if you gonna play for yourself do that shit on your own and don't screw people over because you have a selfish mind.

You just answered your own problem. You can't help people do anything; in this game or out of it unless they want to, or to learn. It's out of your hands. It always has been. Worrying about something you have no control over is a waste of time and effort. But just because they refuse to learn or are too arrogant doesn't give anyone the right to punish them in many of the various ways described. The Vote Kick System is what you use. Why someone wishes to further punish someone beyond being kicked from a group? Well that's just to stroke your own ego making you no better than the person you kicked if not worse. They don't need to be further penalized. It doesn't teach them anything being vote kicked doesn't. Are you insane? Why? WHY? Do you feel better knowing someone somewhere on the planet is worse off than you and you're the one who fucked them?
That doesn't accomplish anything savory.

That's some real negative energy right there and maybe you need to check your own back yard because it sounds like you're just a disgruntled cop wanting to step on someones neck because you have a badge and that's somehow your job today. Giving players the ability to penalize players on a whim is asking for people to abuse other players just because you had a bad day at work, or the Ninja didn't move out of an AOE and died. Unbearably horrible players are few and far between, and I've played since 1.0. This isn't some RMT messaging you 5-30 times a day kind of annoyance that's running rampant across the nation.

If people really wanted others to change it's not by Yelling at them, slapping their hands away from the cookie jar, telling them they suck, or reducing their rewards. It's by allowing them the chance to figure out for themselves that what they're doing isn't correct. No one wakes up one day after being yelled at by strangers on the internet, or being penalized in a Duty Finder and says to themselves "I can't even work a dick in a glory hole, my father was right, I am useless" and suddenly they start listening to people. No... NO. They eat plates of shit for days, weeks, hell maybe months until they decide to LEARN and get better. Otherwise eventually they'll hit a wall societally, and through skill in and out of game.
If they truly enjoy playing this game then they will figure it out. If they can't they'll probably get rid of themselves.

TLDR; Real change only happens when you want it to happen. You can't force that on anyone. Anyone looking to force that on someone is equally at fault. You can't just force your ideals on people and expect everyone to be receptive. That's arrogant.

[MaeIsMean]

You said this:


¨
If you ever read my old post in this thread, I'm all up for helping people. If I leave because I clearly state someone is lazy or just a burden to the group, they will call me elitist, asshole etc? Want proof? Sure I'll start from today and post them directely in here just for you. I do agree with what you said, it only effects me, however it does effect me AGAIN if I just leave and they will have some sort of attitude. Many times I state in group things could be done better because we clearly cant kill things in a farm group etc. Or when I do roulettes, I don't expect elite level of playstyle, but I expect somewhat a decent knowledge of class. But it's fine, I have to stop argue or try to talk to people (some people in here not everyone) how I feel on this issue, because it will be on a wheel 24-7 of the same thing again and again.

Bad people will stay bad people if they need help, why should I help? It bothers me right? So I should just ignore it. You don't seem to get the problem, many does get help and just decline it. Many in here say reach a hand out, give them advice etc, it wont work when they are in denial or when people preach that it's all a game (which it is) but however, if you gonna play for yourself do that shit on your own and don't screw people over because you have a selfish mind.

Ok, again. You are misunderstanding me. I never said anything about helping these "bads" or leaving in the middle of a dungeon. I just said to not get so emotional about it. "Bads" are out there. You can do your best to avoid them, but if you're doing roulette, or joining groups with strangers, you are bound to run into them eventually. If they really get you so angry that you can't function, then don't do things that will put you in that situation. But if you're going to choose to do roulettes, you're gonna get "bads." And if you are going to get all riled up and angry about it, all you're gonna change is your own mood, cuz the "bad" doesn't give a crap what you say, and the others will only either think you're being pushy (if you're rude about "helping") or that you're wasting your time.

So basically, when you get a "bad", do your best to compensate, get through the dungeon, be nice to the not-bads, and be happy that you got your tomes or gear to desynth/turn in for GC seals. Complaining only serves to ruin your further enjoyment of the game, because no one else will be affected.

[Seraphix2407]

TLDR; Real change only happens when you want it to happen. You can't force that on anyone. Anyone looking to force that on someone is equally at fault. You can't just force your ideals on people and expect everyone to be receptive. That's arrogant.

Ofc I wont force anyone, I only help if I feel they need it. If they don't accept it's fine because then I wont even help with their clear either. Times when I do that, I've been called asshlole, elitist, go figure.

[MaeIsMean]

Ofc I wont force anyone, I only help if I feel they need it. If they don't accept it's fine because then I wont even help with their clear either. Times when I do that, I've been called asshlole, elitist, go figure.

Because that's kind of an asshole move. "You won't accept my advice? Peace out, bitches, I am not sticking around if you won't listen to me."

[C000kiemonster]

Run with friends... obviously this is your problem.

If you arent up to teaching people LIKE A MENTOR... then you should not flag as one.

Mentoring is about patience and understanding. If you cant get through to them then that is your failure.

[Seraphix2407]

Because that's kind of an asshole move. "You won't accept my advice? Peace out, bitches, I am not sticking around if you won't listen to me."

Then you see my point then. You told me to ignore people that are bad and move on, because it's wasting my energy and I should use it on something else. Give me 3 reasons why I should stay for a group when they have no improvement, I'm eager to hear.

Ps, to the guy up there, have you seen mentors? 99% doesn't know how to play the game.

[Archaell]

Because that's kind of an asshole move. "You won't accept my advice? Peace out, bitches, I am not sticking around if you won't listen to me."

How is refusing to carry someone an asshole move?

If the players who want to ignore the advice can ignore it. Why couldn't they be ignored as well? Nobody is getting paid for carrying and as such nobody should be expected to do so. (unless of course they are being paid for the carry in some form)

The issue is that too many of us are nice enough to ignore the bad play instead of dealing with it, which eventually leads to players getting fed up with it and starting to be less compassionate.

While the bad play is supported and almost without any form of consequences, the players who dare to desire some sort of improvement are being labeled "elitists". The thing is, most of the elitists perceived by this community aren't elitists by choice, the lack of support when it comes to seeking improvement of the player base makes them elitists and it forces them to eventually become more extremist in their opinions than they would have been otherwise.

[Kerii]

The thing is, most of the elitists perceived by this community aren't elitists by choice...

I can relate to this. I tell my girlfriend that she's awful at healing and should stick to tanking, which she does well. Often people only care that I'm somehow preventing her from playing how she wants... and not that she doesn't understand how to use a shield or regen, that she has 300ms latency, or that she can't stance dance at all because she's several seconds behind the rest of the group... I tried explaining predictive healing to her and got, "I play this job for fun. My friends don't care if I'm bad, and think I should play whatever I want regardless of what you think." How does one even argue with that? If you don't carry them, someone else will, and if you are genuinely trying to help them you're just an elitist jerk because you think you're better than them or some nonsense.