Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[Sipherous]

I've been reading through and there's a huge divide on the context of these posts. The common issues that seem to come up are:

Its a game don't take it seriously
I play how I want
Laziness
Inability to juggle the games mecanics and your skills.
Young or disabled players.

They are all good points, the fact remains tho when you use DF, enter a group to clear something grind stuff and play the game your time is no longer yours. You are now sharing your time with other people Their Time is now effected by your performance and we have goals that we wish to accomplish in the time allotted. I can slow down my pulls to make it easier for others to handle the game, but I wont cater to those not putting in the effort.

If you are in full 230 and I'm doing more dmg while holding all my mobs as a PLD in shield oath you are in serious need of a reformation of your play style. The fact stands that players who go into content should understand the fundamentals of their class so that they don't waste mine or anyone else time because they can't preform. As it stands the issue still revolves around people needing to have their hands glued to a tutor in some situations to use their skills. the tool tip and skill descriptions as well as animated displays give u a very good idea what the skill is used for.

Full Thrust - Deals DMG, more DMG from the Flank (side)
Additional Effect : 10% more dmg
Duration: 20 sec

I don't know how much simpiler they could have made it, maybe change flank cause i don't doubt there are people who would go 'wtf is flank?' If the game punishes you for leaving because a group your running with is riding your back for an easy win you shouldnt be punished for it. Its not your job or anyone elses to carry them. They need to step up. Vote Kick is not adequate because it needs the entire party to be agreed upon and can and will work against you.

Also the guy mocking me for carrying my friends, I don't. I Teach them, just like any other person who goes into content they need to be taught. Unless you are world first in soemthign your going to be learning from someone else weather in game or on a video. Fact is if they dont preform or are under geared I'll tell them step-up or step-off.

[Sipherous]

Didn't read through 10 pages but...let's think about this situation:

What about when the person is still getting used to the level 60 rotations?
For example, my BLM just hit 60 yesterday. I already had stored up IL230 gear to equip as soon as I got to 60. So when I hit 60, a TON of new dungeons opened up for me.But as anyone who has played BLM knows, the 60 rotation is vastly different from 1-59, you've got Fire IV now and need to manage it together with Enochain and Blizzard IV.
Plus, BLM is my first DPS class. Even in other MMORPGs, I almost exclusively played a healer.

Before going into any level 60 dungeons, I practiced the rotation like crazy on a Practice Dummy. I tried my best to memorize the hotkey locations so I wouldn't have to look when I went into the dungeon. (had to arrange them due to the new rotations.)

I practice my openers, single target rotations, AoE rotations...

The first 60 dungeon I went into with BLM was today. 2 FC members and a random person.

I did my absolute best, putting to use everything I had learned until now plus what I had practiced yesterday.
Still, no amount of practice on a target dummy could prepare me for the dungeon: a real life situation.
I was able to do my rotations fairly well, but not perfectly. I lost my Enochain when I had to dodge an AoE, and I didn't account for the level sync(even though it was a 60 dungeon), so I had to adjust my rotation.

I got nervous and forgot the hotkeys and needed to look at the hotbar, and got hit by some AoEs without noticing (but didn't die, thankfully).

I felt like I gave 110%. I worked very hard preparing for the dungeon and did my absolute best I could. I never slacked off. I plan to keep improving.

But the fact of the matter is, despite my effort and preparation, I didn't perform as well as a veteran BLM could have. Someone who didn't know it was my first 60 dungeon as a BLM could have thought I wasn't carrying my own weight.

But by golly I prepared the best I could and put forth as much effort as possible in my first dungeon.

If someone is new there is a leniant curve, Theres a big sign that says Hey I'm green! I look at your gear calculate what the appropriate run time for the instance can be and go at a pace thats needed. For a DPS I assume you can't out DPS me by default. I make small pulls at the start to get an accurate read of dmg being delt. For healers similar situation just incoming DMG vs inc heals. If I see proper use of CD's and skills with minor mistakes no big. But doing 5-6 skills over the course of a 5 min pull/boss fight is unacceptable and I'd likely let something kill you if it got the chance.

[Seraphix2407]

Because you want to clear content more than punishing the people who seek carry. It is good philosophy in theory but it is really hard to sustain for longer period of time.

I rather leave next time and hope for something that people can do 30 mins later. I actually wiped in nid story mode yesterday for 45 min. 2 guys left but I stayed, so I brought 2 friends with me into the place for progression que and we won it. I could leave and que up again. But next time I will deff leave when someone else do if not I'll leave so the can also leave as well.

[FinaSel]

For example, I used Surecast, Ley Lines, Raging Strikes, Enochain, Convert when they were up. Made the best use of my cooldowns as I could.

But lacking real experience in a level 60 dungeon, with a totally new level 60 rotation, left my drawing a blank when I had to dodge an AoE and then continue an effective rotation.
There are a lot of new things to consider for a new level 60 BLM. Is it time to refresh Enochain? Is it safe to move back into Ley Lines? Is my MP full yet? If I use Thundercloud here, will I have enough time to refresh Enochain? (In IL level synced dungeon): Will I have enough MP for 1 more Fire IV?

If someone simply looked at my Item Level, they might think I were experienced, since I had several items from Weeping City of Mhach plus Lore IL 230 items. But I got those items with my White Mage.

I didn't have a sprout icon because my main job is White Mage, so there is no way for someone to know whether I am new, or just being lazy.
But if someone had made the assumption I was being lazy or asking to be carried, I would be pretty upset considering how much I tried to prepare for the dungeon.

[Kaeoni]

A system needs to be in place that penalizes poor play despite how damning it would be to some players.

No.

You're asking for a system that can freely punish people based on what people deem acceptable regardless of if the person is or is not a bad player. Not only can yours, mine and other peoples perceptions be wrong. But It can be abused to pick on and cause un-necessary distress for some players through no fault of their own. Their only fault was being picked at near random by a group of self-righteous thugs who think they're better than others.

I agree that at times it feels like and it might just be the case that someone isn't doing their job. But such is the nature of playing an Online game with people from around the world. So deal with it.

Instead of taking things down an absurdly negative route with punishing him, her or anything in-between. There should be a better version of Commendations. At current you can only give out 1, forcing you to pick 1 person, when everyone might have excelled equally, or at a slightly lower rate than your #1 pick. There are many MANY times multiple people deserved commendations but I couldn't give them to everyone and that's the real shame. There are MORE good players than bad. Encouraging good play is far more productive than punishing poor play. Not only from a business standpoint as that persons subscription will probably stay intact. But for the community as well, less tylenol.

Recognition and knowing that a system is in place that benefits people, and rewards them for better play is far more enticing and doesn't Piss anyone off.
Having the ability to throw out more commendations and being able to collect systematic rewards for receiving those commendations. As well as maybe a locked Cafe, an exclusive resting zone, Some chill place with Vendors ect, for those with certain Commendation #'s.

I'm talking better rewards than the garbage we're currently getting. Plus it stops at 3000 Com's Maybe 500 Get's you into the Club, and every 100 You get to access an NPC with bad ass glamour stuff, Minions, Mounts. If you make it like a currency, things could get real crazy.

I'm just snowballing with a system that already exists. But the Rewards for commendations are few and far between and could be managed better to benefit and Acknowledge it's player base for good play.

The focus should be on establishing a positive feedback loop which can assess and manage these problems naturally without enabling douchbags with tools to punish people as they see fit.

[Archaell]

...

Commendations go to the tanks/healers, people with cool glamours and to the person who can make the best fart jokes. That would seriously motivate players to do better!

Tho I agree with your point. Players should be motivated by rewards. But the rewards should not be controlled by players, they should be controlled by the game. The game should have contribution based system that would scale with item level and player's job.

Let's say that if your contribution gets bellow certain amount you get 20% of the reward. 20% of tomes, 20% of daily bonus, 20% of rolls on items etc. etc. Suddenly all the players would be motivated to contribute more, because that would mean doing the instance once instead of 5 times for the same reward.

Right now everyone gets the same reward no matter the performance and that has to go. Unless the performance is in each player's interest individually nothing much is going to change.

[AnaviAnael]

Didn't read through 10 pages but...let's think about this situation:

What about when the person is still getting used to the level 60 rotations?
For example, my BLM just hit 60 yesterday. I already had stored up IL230 gear to equip as soon as I got to 60. So when I hit 60, a TON of new dungeons opened up for me.

I believe most people can tell the difference between people such as yourself who give a care and are learning, versus the players who don't. If I see a BLM struggling to keep enochian up, that tells me they're newer or returning, etc. and getting into the groove of the job again or possibly having a bad day. What I took from the OP was he was talking about people who are blatant in their IDGAF mentality. What he said didn't strike me as "I expect everyone to be perfect and put forth a Savage level performance," but rather, "I expect people to put in an effort."

[magdahmhara]

I'm more interested in how you play at 110%, can you expand on that please ?

Overclocking? O.o

[Bracken]

blah blah i'm better than you.

you Sir should be in the Coffer and Coffin on a Thursday night doing stand up. that Stuff right there is Hilarious

[itti18]

i think SE should make the rewards in DF based on performance for each class ,

its kind of unfair to get the same reward as someone thats just want to get carried