Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[Seraphix2407]

TLDR; Real change only happens when you want it to happen. You can't force that on anyone. Anyone looking to force that on someone is equally at fault. You can't just force your ideals on people and expect everyone to be receptive. That's arrogant.

Ofc I wont force anyone, I only help if I feel they need it. If they don't accept it's fine because then I wont even help with their clear either. Times when I do that, I've been called asshlole, elitist, go figure.

[MaeIsMean]

Ofc I wont force anyone, I only help if I feel they need it. If they don't accept it's fine because then I wont even help with their clear either. Times when I do that, I've been called asshlole, elitist, go figure.

Because that's kind of an asshole move. "You won't accept my advice? Peace out, bitches, I am not sticking around if you won't listen to me."

[Seraphix2407]

Because that's kind of an asshole move. "You won't accept my advice? Peace out, bitches, I am not sticking around if you won't listen to me."

Then you see my point then. You told me to ignore people that are bad and move on, because it's wasting my energy and I should use it on something else. Give me 3 reasons why I should stay for a group when they have no improvement, I'm eager to hear.

Ps, to the guy up there, have you seen mentors? 99% doesn't know how to play the game.

[Archaell]

Because that's kind of an asshole move. "You won't accept my advice? Peace out, bitches, I am not sticking around if you won't listen to me."

How is refusing to carry someone an asshole move?

If the players who want to ignore the advice can ignore it. Why couldn't they be ignored as well? Nobody is getting paid for carrying and as such nobody should be expected to do so. (unless of course they are being paid for the carry in some form)

The issue is that too many of us are nice enough to ignore the bad play instead of dealing with it, which eventually leads to players getting fed up with it and starting to be less compassionate.

While the bad play is supported and almost without any form of consequences, the players who dare to desire some sort of improvement are being labeled "elitists". The thing is, most of the elitists perceived by this community aren't elitists by choice, the lack of support when it comes to seeking improvement of the player base makes them elitists and it forces them to eventually become more extremist in their opinions than they would have been otherwise.

[Kerii]

The thing is, most of the elitists perceived by this community aren't elitists by choice...

I can relate to this. I tell my girlfriend that she's awful at healing and should stick to tanking, which she does well. Often people only care that I'm somehow preventing her from playing how she wants... and not that she doesn't understand how to use a shield or regen, that she has 300ms latency, or that she can't stance dance at all because she's several seconds behind the rest of the group... I tried explaining predictive healing to her and got, "I play this job for fun. My friends don't care if I'm bad, and think I should play whatever I want regardless of what you think." How does one even argue with that? If you don't carry them, someone else will, and if you are genuinely trying to help them you're just an elitist jerk because you think you're better than them or some nonsense.

[Archaell]

"I play this job for fun. My friends don't care if I'm bad, and think I should play whatever I want regardless of what you think." How does one even argue with that?

That's exactly it. You can't argue with that because it makes sense. Everybody should be allowed to play the way they want to play.

Yet this doesn't work well when everybody is rewarded the same no matter how much they contribute and when players who don't care are put in groups with players who do care.

Forcing players to change their play-style by suggestions is not going to work. The system has to be tuned so that they want to change it - like the individual rewards instead of group ones as has been mentioned. Unless players see that they are losing something by being bad they are not going to consider "wasting time" to get better.

[Kaurie]

That's exactly it. You can't argue with that because it makes sense. Everybody should be allowed to play the way they want to play.

It literally makes zero sense.

[Archaell]

It literally makes zero sense.

It makes sense in the regard that it is just a game and games are played to have fun or to get other sorts of entertainment, satisfaction.

What doesn't make sense is forcing your fun on a group of people who are not like-minded and here comes the disparity - Forcing others to carry you is easily done, while forcing others to play better almost impossible and on top of that punishable by the harassment clause or condemned by the social justice league.

[Seraphix2407]

How is refusing to carry someone an asshole move?
While the bad play is supported and almost without any form of consequences, the players who dare to desire some sort of improvement are being labeled "elitists". The thing is, most of the elitists perceived by this community aren't elitists by choice, the lack of support when it comes to seeking improvement of the player base makes them elitists and it forces them to eventually become more extremist in their opinions than they would have been otherwise.

I could honestly not said it any better, you hit spot on. This is excaxctly how I feel. If people gonna keep wipe because they think it's fun and ignore the fact they are the ones being bad and wipe a party aka ignoring the 7 other players, why shouldn't I ignore bad players? If you want a carry better pay me gil then.

[MaeIsMean]

How is refusing to carry someone an asshole move?

I guess it depends on your perspective. I'm pretty casual, so I don't dare touch my toes into savage zones, because it's not my thing. I could perform well in them if i chose, I am not unskilled at all, I just don't really have the time. But if I am doing a DF, and my tank happens to be a badly programmed bot (has happened), I don't tell him to get better or I'll leave. I just laugh with the other people in the group about how ridiculous he is, and get the dungeon done in spite of it. If he was truly being a detriment, we would have kicked him, laughed at him, and either disbanded or waited for a replacement to finish. I can see if it was harder content and someone is being lazy/uncooperative, but there are tools for dealing with that that don't involve "offering help and leaving if they don't take it." I dunno. To me, you either want to help or you don't, but you don't offer, then "pick up your toys and go home" when they don't accept the help.