Healer DPS metagame for non savage content is getting old

[ErryK]

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I don't fight with the BLM in my raid for caster accessories, so no, it does not logically follow to be a healer problem as it was a tank problem pre-3.2. And if the role has shifted too far into DPS, please tell me why healers themselves just don't go play a DPS. You can't. Because there is still healing to be done eventually... accuracy will guarantee hits to land, but if I meld more crit instead of accuracy, that Miasma I just cast that was supposed to crit? Yeah, it didn't even land. Neither did that Broil... or that Energy Drain. Healers altogether should not be penalized because one person wants to only ever heal all the time. I thank SE for allowing us to meld, but I hate that they removed the minimal accuracy we got from pieces.

[Destous]

I don't fight with the BLM in my raid for caster accessories, so no, it does not logically follow to be a healer problem as it was a tank problem pre-3.2. And if the role has shifted too far into DPS, please tell me why healers themselves just don't go play a DPS. You can't. Because there is still healing to be done eventually... accuracy will guarantee hits to land, but if I meld more crit instead of accuracy, that Miasma I just cast that was supposed to crit? Yeah, it didn't even land. Neither did that Broil... or that Energy Drain. Healers altogether should not be penalized because one person wants to only ever heal all the time. I thank SE for allowing us to meld, but I hate that they removed the minimal accuracy we got from pieces.

I feel like you're caught up on an idea that has nothing to do with my point. There's nothing wrong in the current game with healers seeing the value of accuracy. The problem is that accuracy is so valuable to healers. It's so valuable that it supercedes other stat options. If there was gear with accuracy already on it, it would be prioritized over other, higher ilvl, gear. You're not going to see healers using caster accessories. One, it messes up what Cleric Stance is meant to do to just throw on Int over Mnd, and ending up with a weird base mix of Int and Mnd. So you can't draw a very good parallel between tanks using slaying gear, which is just tank gear with Str instead of Vit; and without the hassle of avoiding Parry.

Man, I consider myself an elitist and even I don't care one bit what a person has chosen to meld for dungeon runs. Tanks were a different issue because it was a whole right side of gear that was dps oriented, not just the melds but the prime stat. It was never a real issue; a tank in full STR accessories was still easy to keep up, nothing in dungeons even remotely required VIT accs. But when bad healers see an easy target to blame that's not themselves...well, we get what happened. And everybody lost out because of it.

I don't think SE changed Vit because of whinging from people about slaying tanks in 4 man dungeons. I think they changed it when they saw that savage tanks were hitting a max health mark, and then ignoring Vit; there was also the issue of all Fending accessories being outright ignored, and they want classes using the gear they've designed for them to use.

[ZaaZaa]

How about these ideas :
1. giving ONLY assize (for mana) in dungeons / primals / alexander ? All the other DPS skills : Holy, stone, wind = not available (only for solo or maps)
2. Make a 5 min cool down when change a stance. Even a 2 minutes would work actually. (assize would need a change. Make it a fixed number of Mana, depending of the gear... Like, higuest your healing potency, more you get mana). Well, that is for WHM, you can see where i am going with this. Make the same changes for SCH and AST to such skills.

[ZaaZaa]

Here is my take on this : asking healers to DPS started in SCoB, mostly because the DPS gained advanced gear with tomes, but didn't master their rotations. One can be a good DPS, but ask a DPS to imrpove their DPS by tweaking their rotations... only a few master the job. Elite endgame was NOT designed for healers to support DPS, but that's whhere it started. ASking tanks to improve their DPS... then came the healers. It spread like a virus, and now, we are stucked with people in ex roulette harrasing healers because they don'T DPS.

As a healer, i REFUSE 100% completely to DPS. It's against my principle. This game has not enough separation in roles as it is... FF11 used to have same roles = tank, heal,DPS.. but with new roles puller and support. We can't compare the 2 games, i know... But i refuse to DPS as a healer in FF14 because we need to boost PVE immersion. To each it's job, that's it.

I actually wish DPS on tanks would be capped. Now watch my comments get burnt !

[Mattelot]

ZaaZaa, I am on the same page as you are. There were a handful of kids on here who insulted me for it but you are right. People get nasty about too. It's a personal choice by (as you said) principle. If I wanted to DPS, I'd switch my Sch stone for Smn. I don't ask Smns to help heal if I felt inadequate.

[ZaaZaa]

You know what would be great ? SE implement some tools that MEASURE how a DPS use his DPS rotations. He would have a color on his TP bar. Blue = awesome / green = somewhat decent / purple = go back on the dummy.

Another thing i wish would be SE giving just 1 elite endgame content with ALL members to be gear capped. 100% skills and 0% stats. You acheive in there, it REALLY means you know your job. Imagine entering such instance, all members have same level of wep, same level of everything.

now why people would want to go in there : ok after completion of the last fight of the serie.. you could gain best wep in game. That, right there, and only for that reason alone, people would want to go there.

100% skills / 0% gear

I'll make a new post about that lol

[ErryK]

Those ideas are great and all, you guys can have your "PvE immersion", but if it does get implemented, it should be optional. If I want to DPS, I should be able to...

But i refuse to DPS as a healer in FF14

The game literally tells you to DPS as a healer when everything is fine and no one is in need of healing. You would do well to perhaps pay a visit to the Hall of the Novice.

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You mentioned healers being 'obsessed' with accuracy, and that it's an issue on the same level as tanks taking and using slaying accessories. There is a HUGE difference in this case, and I've mentioned it to you, and you acknowledge it yourself, so why are you making it up to be a huge issue like the tank issue when it isn't? SE allowed us to customize our gear with accuracy, if an individual decides to meld accuracy, what business is it of yours if they are melding accuracy and are capable of knowing when to DPS and when not to? I really do not get the hubbub of it all.

[Destous]

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How many times do a I need to say "stat weights" before you get my point?

Tanks using slaying gear was a twofold boost to their effectiveness in a group. It was extra DPS which directly translates to extra enmity, which means less threat rotation and more damage rotations, so it further enhanced tank DPS. To fix this, SE changed Vit to shift tanking stat weights AWAY from Str.

What we're seeing with healers is they're melding Accuracy for the sole purpose of boosting their DPS. It so happens that this comes at little to no detriment to their ability to heal endgame. So the stat weight for healers has shifted to prioritize Accuracy first, to the hitcap, which is exactly the same stat weight as every DPS role. It's not a matter of a lack of other options either. Both Det and Spellspeed increase a healers ability to heal and to DPS; yet they're weighted lower than Accuracy, and stat which only boosts DPS.

[ErryK]

How many times do a I need to say "stat weights" before you get my point?

You have NEVER mentioned stat weights, AT ALL, when talking to me. While Accuracy might be weighted higher, it's purely because those people have chosen a mindset of making sure their attacks land, in Savage raids... they hadn't melded accuracy just so they can DPS in dungeons. Dungeon accuracy is so low, it may as well not be a thing, so if healers are melding accuracy for that one specific thing, then that's because they're misinformed and have wasted gil. But I have never, ever experienced people nagging me in dungeons to DPS. I DPS myself because I'm confident in my own skills.

[Destous]

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I've been talking about stat weights since the first post.

You have this annoying habit of describing the current meta as if I don't know it. I know what it is; that's why I'm saying SE needs to change it. The issue isn't the healers are doing DPS; the issue is that healer's doing DPS is so valuable that their secondary stat priority matches the ranged casters. SE could bake a hit cap into Cleric Stance and fix the issue overnight without affecting how healers manage their DPS in groups.