What are the best Secondaries for SCH DPS?

[Alistaire]

https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/ And remember, those are the weights with everything taken into consideration. ...lol

[Supersun]

https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/ And remember, those are the weights with everything taken into consideration. ...lol

I know where to find the weights. I more meant where are the numbers of how much Spell Speed and Det affect Dots. I found the spell speed one [(1+(skillspeed-354)*0.000138)]. Looking for the Det ones.

While Smn and Sch are similar, Det is going to be a LOT more potent on Smn than on Sch due to their number of instant cast high potency off GDC abilities that won't be affected by Spell Speed at all.

[Alistaire]

Well, not sure he has them posted but dervy's weights include that factor so he'd know them.

And yeah I was just sayin as a rough guess to say SCH weights for dps would be similar to SMN. Given that SMN weighs crit over det and those both affect the same group of things it'd make sense long before considering crit's healing potency for SCH to go crit.

Since the topic is "accuracy + what for SCH melds" speed shouldn't even be in this topic. It's not 2nd place to crit, it's 3rd. If you could max out melds for acc *and* crit *and* det on gear let alone start to consider speed after all that we'd never need more than 1 set of gear! And anything without overmelding capabilities you're never going to max out acc to begin with, so whether gear has max crit or not should also not be in this topic.

[Rawrz]

Sch weights won't be similar to smn. Det is last in line. We don't have anything to funnel our raw damage into, outside of energy drain and broil, which pale compared to Fester, Painflare, Deathflare, pet attacks or even buffed ruin III under dreadwyrm. It would be tietary, behind accuracy and crit, but still more powerful than det. We are an entirely different breed of gimp. xD

The question they are asking is if you were to cut out these non dot based attacks, how would det compare to spell speed. Most of an SCHs damage comes from his DoTs, way more so than SMN, because they have much larger Aetherflow abilities that can outweigh the entire duration of any DoT. Sch does not.

[Alistaire]

Look. Everything that SMN does is affected by both crit and det.

If SMN values crit more than det it's also better for SCH.

You don't get to the point you max acc and crit and have room for anything else, so anything else is moot point.

Oh, and yes a SCH dps'ing will use energy drain depending on the situation.

[Rawrz]

Look. Everything that SMN does is affected by both crit and det.

If SMN values crit more than det it's also better for SCH.

You don't get to the point you max acc and crit and have room for anything else, so anything else is moot point.

Oh, and yes a SCH dps'ing will use energy drain depending on the situation.

Yeah energy drain is used frequently, but det scales with potency. It scales higher with fester than it does with energy drain. Det works with DoTs as well, but is boosted by a SMNs core dps from aetherflow/aethertrail. This causes the weights to skew towards determination. Scholar doesn't rely on aetherflow as its core DPS. That's carried by DoTs, especially so during phases that need more heals, which in turn causes less boils.

You could be right, or it could be negligible, or SS could be right. We won't really know until someone sits down and tests it at full scale.

[Supersun]

The reason Det is better than Spell speed for Smn is like more that half of Smns toolkit isn't affected by Spell Speed, AT ALL. With Sch it's only Energy Drain.

You are correct that the totem pole is Acc until cap> Crit, but then after that I'm curious whether spell speed beats det or not.

At least for the theoretical expert roulette farming armor where you don't need Acc it's Crit then what stat?

[Alistaire]

Here you go: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/UTIX

This is what you'd aim for. Hits 599 acc where A8S has 600 cap, you could switch out a crit meld if you felt you absolutely needed to avoid that 0.01% miss chance.

The only slot there I had to think for even a second which was better because of det vs speed was boots. And even for SMN, who would weigh DET higher than SCH for the reasons you said, would still grab the boots with speed/pie over det/pie because of the #s.

If you're stuck with lore pieces instead of midan you're even more in need of crit melds or go with mhach drops.

And the other thing to say about SCH dps weights would be that PIE has a weight to it that'd be impossible to gauge. It helps because it widens the window of dps'ing without fear of running dry, but how much depends not just on you but other people; how much damage they take, are people likely to need raises etc. It could even be better than crit for dps purposes depending on how much dps time it adds to your individual situation; if you were undergeared enough that you'd normally need every bit of mp just to do your healer job extra PIE would have an infinite dps weighting.

[Supersun]

Those numbers are outdated for Sch. They are the ones from 2.0. They haven't updated Sch weights yet for 3.0 which is why people are using Smn as a reference.

[Alistaire]

Those numbers are outdated for Sch. They are the ones from 2.0. They haven't updated Sch weights yet for 3.0 which is why people are using Smn as a reference.

Yup, I ignored those stat weights and put in the smn ones. Not sure it saved my choices for that along with the gear choices, but again, none of it effectively changes which gear you'd go for. And if you get Midan or any other book you're even more stuck melding acc.

Edit: and it turns out Xero guy here actually got those numbers from Dervy, which idk why you wouldn't just say so, makes a lot more sense to say "I got these from the guy who started the math" rather than "I took some other guy's numbers and tweaked em myself!"

Got the link for smn weights without pets:

http://puu.sh/pMouu/3fc3b7849c.png

Which does put speed above det.

...and in the end still doesn't change what you'd do on sch, but good to know I guess?