What are the best Secondaries for SCH DPS?

[Rawrz]

AFTER gaining high amounts of Crit, I think that Spell Speed is a pretty fair secondary, but you have to weigh it against piety. I'm at 12.7k instead of 1.32k because of the Relic changes (even with compensating by using the 240 Midan Ring.)

240- Word of the Magnate (120 Accuracy/120 Crit-Relic)
240- Augmented Hailstorm Crown of Healing (Lore)
230- Yafaemi Jacket of Healing (WCM) (Until A8S Top)
240- Augmented Hailstorm Gloves of Healing (Lore)
240- Augmented Hailstorm Belt of Healing (Lore)
240- Augmented Hailstorm Bottoms of Healing (Lore)
240- Hailstorm Boots of Healing (Lore)

240- Midan Neckband of Healing (A5s)
240- Midan Earrings of Healing (A5s)
240- Midan Bracelets of Healing (A5s)
240- Midan Ring of Healing (A5s) [Decrease piety loss, while increasing mind)
240- Augmented Primal Ring of Healing (Lore)

Stats With Baked Pipira Pipira as the ideal raid food, but outside of Party. Lore ring is still 230 and has a crit IV instead of Crit V so crit will go up slightly. Crit V can be substitued with Vit V if Vit is needed.

9 Slots have accuracy Vs (+108 +120+354 makes accuracy 582. Good for most content and can cap for a8s with pipira at 599 accuracy.)

My dps went up significantly with the completion of the Relic since I was able to shed my +51 Acc Hands and +36 Accuracy rings. Went from best time of beating the A8s with 12 seconds remaining (1222 DpS) to 25 seconds (1356 DpS). I have noticed that moving from 680ish SS to 780ish SS (if using Sohm Al Tart) has caused my Bio II to slightly misalign if I don't push an extra broil, that could potentially cause Bio, Aero and Miasma to completely fall off, instead of clipping it at 0-2 seconds. At 440 SS I felt significant DPS loss even with 1100+ crit after dropping from 680ish SS to 440ish from upgrade changes like Sephy book to 230 relic, so SS is necessary at least to a point. I'm slightly considerering dropping my pants (;D) for the 240 Midan ones in favor of crit/piety, since the DPS gain from the Lore pants might be a bit marginal compared to the extra crit and MP padding.


Also: Spell Speed boes affect Pets. It benefits Eos the most, because it directly changes her whispering dawn cool down. Mine shaves off 3 seconds at the moment. Selene's Fey wind helps to stack to make her "better" at her embrace spamming. This synergies with the pet actions buff, because the faster she can cast embrace with her high crit rate, the more often she will proc it, which increases DPS (even if again in theory, since I only have logic behind this and no parse data :C). Lastly, the faster that she can cast, the more quickly she can help react if you're incapacitated or have your hands tied to a mechanic.

[Alistaire]

I don't know how you got those numbers. Do elaborate your findings

ditto, nor is he even clear what they mean.

Crit all the way even if crit wasn't godly for sch shields. Other than acc you'd basically look at SMN stat weights.

[Judge_Xero]

Also: Spell Speed boes affect Pets. It benefits Eos the most, because it directly changes her whispering dawn cool down. Mine shaves off 3 seconds at the moment. Selene's Fey wind helps to stack to make her "better" at her embrace spamming. This synergies with the pet actions buff, because the faster she can cast embrace with her high crit rate, the more often she will proc it, which increases DPS (even if again in theory, since I only have logic behind this and no parse data :C). Lastly, the faster that she can cast, the more quickly she can help react if you're incapacitated or have your hands tied to a mechanic.

Thank you for your insight into how you find it works under practical conditions (Raids etc), and that you find you do require SS to perform optimally DPS wise.

You are correct that SS does decrease the recast of Whispering Down due to it being labelled Spell compared to the rest of the Lily's skills. Unfortunately the other skills labelled Ability as well as Embrace (even though it's labelled as Spell) are unaffected.

ditto, nor is he even clear what they mean.

Crit all the way even if crit wasn't godly for sch shields. Other than acc you'd basically look at SMN stat weights.

If there is anything you would like to know specifically plz let me know.

As far as I was aware, the general effect of Secondaries on Damage is fairly well known.

Also, I don't think that looking at SMN secondaries would be a good rule of thumb as there are significant differences between SMN and SCH in that regard.

SMN Damage is made up of about only 60% that is effected by SS of which only 30% is DOTS, due to having Death Flare, a Pet that does damage and is unaffected by SS, Pain Flare, Fester as well as their single target main spam spell is only 80 potency VS SCH which has Broil at 170 Potency.

SCH has an additional DOT Aero, and the only skill unaffected by SS is Energy Drain which only accounts for around 10% of damage at most. Because they don't have Contagion their dots are used more frequently as well as are significantly more potent then the majority of SCH's toolkit.

[Alistaire]

No questions here, just stating your numbers are pulled out of nowhere and don't coincide with pretty much everybody else's calculations on the matter.

[Judge_Xero]

No questions here, just stating your numbers are pulled out of nowhere and don't coincide with pretty much everybody else's calculations on the matter.

Which numbers?

Current Crit Chance Formula ((CRT-354)/(858*5))+0.05 (330)/(4290)+ 0.05 = 12.7%
Current Crit Hit Formula ((CRT-354)/(858*5))+1.45 (330)/(4290) + 1.45 = 1.527
Combined CRT over the baseline of 5%/1.45 Multi = (12.7% * 0.527)-(5% * 0.45) = 4.44%
DET Damage Modifier (1+DET/8079) (1+330/8079) = 1.0408
GCD/Cast Modifier 2.51-((SS-334)/2641) (Different for 3s + Casts) 2.51 - ((330)/(2641) = 2.385
SS Spell Modifier ((SS-354)/7722+1) - (330/7722+1) = 1.0427

Or the values I pulled from FFLogs to compare what each ability a SCH does damage wise during the current content?

Even if you simply took the SMN weights of: Source - FFXIV Gear Calculator
CRT - 0.181
DET - 0.159
SS - 0.138

http://www.fflogs.com/reports/mLzpjM...done&source=10

Then factored out the Pet 17.59%, Deathflare 15.39%, Fester 7.4%, Aerial Blast 6.31%, Pain Flare 4.67%, + the other small amounts 1%.

In this example 52.36% of damage dealt is completely unaffected by SS and yet it is weighted @ 0.138 compared to DET of 0.159. So how much would it be worth if you cut out all those other factors?

So at between 50%-60% effectiveness it has a weight of 0.138 on SMN.
On SCH it has an effectiveness of ~90% (not counting DOTS because they are the common denominator between SMN/SCH anyway) so would it make sense that SS would have a weight in the area of 0.207? (0.138/0.6)(0.9)?

*** Going to go with the lower end and say between 0.190-0.195

So like ~20% better than DET if that is the case.

Although a reduction in Cast should only translate into more Broils since dots are static. 5% seems to come out to ~3.5% gain not 5%.
So 3.5% + 2% from DOTS. 5.5% VS 4.5% should still be better and even more so for AOE

4.5% VS 5.5%? -> 22%. So really close to what I mentioned earlier.

[Supersun]

Random question, but for the 20% spell speed buff for DoTs is your spell speed taken into account during the initial cast or for each tick?

Basically does the 8 sec buff mean that your DoTs will do more damage for the next 8 secs or any DoTs cast during the next 8 secs will hit like a truck kinda like raging strikes.

[Alistaire]

Which numbers?

Current Crit Chance Formula ((CRT-354)/(858*5))+0.05 (330)/(4290)+ 0.05 = 12.7%
Current Crit Hit Formula ((CRT-354)/(858*5))+1.45 (330)/(4290) + 1.45 = 1.527
Combined CRT over the baseline of 5%/1.45 Multi = (12.7% * 0.527)-(5% * 0.45) = 4.44%
DET Damage Modifier (1+DET/8079) (1+330/8079) = 1.0408
GCD/Cast Modifier 2.51-((SS-334)/2641) (Different for 3s + Casts) 2.51 - ((330)/(2641) = 2.385
SS Spell Modifier ((SS-354)/7722+1) - (330/7722+1) = 1.0427

Or the values I pulled from FFLogs to compare what each ability a SCH does damage wise during the current content?

Even if you simply took the SMN weights of: Source - FFXIV Gear Calculator
CRT - 0.181
DET - 0.159
SS - 0.138

http://www.fflogs.com/reports/mLzpjM...done&source=10

Then factored out the Pet 17.59%, Deathflare 15.39%, Fester 7.4%, Aerial Blast 6.31%, Pain Flare 4.67%, + the other small amounts 1%.

In this example 52.36% of damage dealt is completely unaffected by SS and yet it is weighted @ 0.138 compared to DET of 0.159. So how much would it be worth if you cut out all those other factors?

So at between 50%-60% effectiveness it has a weight of 0.138 on SMN.
On SCH it has an effectiveness of ~90% (not counting DOTS because they are the common denominator between SMN/SCH anyway) so would it make sense that SS would have a weight in the area of 0.207? (0.138/0.6)(0.9)?

*** Going to go with the lower end and say between 0.190-0.195

So like ~20% better than DET if that is the case.

4.5% VS 5.5%? -> 22%. So really close to what I mentioned earlier.

Oh wow that's bad. Those stat weights are the result after figuring all those things in, that's how they get how important each one is (and in SMN's case why there's a subtle difference if you auto-attack with your book "book-smacking"). So you're basically saying 2+2 =4 but then hitting enter on a calculator one too many times and getting 6.

Crit > det > speed. That's the END result. Not the middle for you to then play around with again. At least now I know where you made the mistake.

Random question, but for the 20% spell speed buff for DoTs is your spell speed taken into account during the initial cast or for each tick?

Basically does the 8 sec buff mean that your DoTs will do more damage for the next 8 secs or any DoTs cast during the next 8 secs will hit like a truck kinda like raging strikes.

dots calculate what each tic will do when applied. So yes, like raging strikes, better to cast while it's up. But it's never going to be worth clipping for that.

[Supersun]

dots calculate what each tic will do when applied. So yes, like raging strikes, better to cast while it's up. But it's never going to be worth clipping for that.

Of course not, but unlike a Smn, Sch can have their pet auto attack without a monster around. So long as you don't completely leave your fairy in the dust you can have your fairy spam embrace on itself and have a fairly decent chance of having the status effect proc while running to the next encounter.

-----

Also, are you sure Det > SS for DPS? That doesn't make a lot of sense since the only thing that isn't affected by SS is Energy Drain unlike Smn that has Death Flare, Pain Flare, and Fester.

In addition, Sch's DoTs hit for 10% harder due to Cleric's stance (well, slightly less since they have more base Int), and has an additional DoT with Aero.

So if the above numbers are correct where 66 SS is a 1% increase while 72 Det is a 1% I have to be missing something if Det > SS

[Alistaire]

idk what to say, the sps buff is there but it's not as potent as it could be? All those stat weights are up to date taking the buff into account. "The above numbers" if you mean Judge_Xero's, no they're definitely not right.

If anyone was guaranteed to be right just because they showed some numbers nobody would ever fail a math test.

And yeah, definitely no harm to spamming embrace between pulls hoping for a proc, both for healing and offensive reasons.

[Supersun]

Yeah, looking around for the SS and Det numbers. They are being difficult to find.