Too many gameplay restrictions

[Voltyblast]

Perhaps. I would argue otherwise considering the sheer complexity of mechanics Savage throws at you. To each their own, really. Most raiders seem to be pretty content with Midas and Weeping City. So... what's there to add here? More of either would be nice.

Since I did some Coil back in ARR, I'd like to ask "What complexity is there?" From what I see on videos and youtube, it's always all about damage and nothing else. Sure it had some sort of "strategy" to them, but it all boiled down to "nuke as fast and without dying as much as possible, while avoiding these or that mechanic". And if you fail it's a insta-wipe...is this strategy? I've played raids where failing a mechanic didn't necessarily spell wipe, am I getting old or something? Last I played a raid that wasn't in this game, a Raid consisted on following tactics while doing a minimum amount of damage and possibly without dying, or else it would become harder, as in "You can still beat it but it'll take longer". When a dps dies in a raid here you might as well wipe, since the dps check usually fails at this part (usually, not always).

Also, dps checks in most mmorpgs weren't in every fight: they were used for gear checks more than anything else, which means that it was usually 2 or 3 at best in every raid...although most raids I played had more than 4 bosses.

Plus Azrael IS right: we don't have raid spots, they are jobs. I have constantly witnessed my static changing people for the sake of the raid, because he wasn't doing his best, or because his playstyle didn't work, or whatever was wrong. Sure some of them legit played badly or not good enough, but it was something that I never witnessed in an MMORPG since the early days of Ragnarok (I dunno, maybe because I'm EU and my server is NA: raids in EU seem to be much more easy going).
But yes, as far as I'm concerned a raid spot acts like a job in this game: you miss it once you might lose your spot. I know that because during FCOB I had to use another computer because mine was broken, and if I hadn't that ready I would've probably be replaced. After all the hardships to join it and learn the mechanics, to be replaced for just missing one day? That would be insane.

But if players are fine with how things are, I guess it's fine. But bigger raids would mean more people to raid with, just saying...

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Since I did some Coil back in ARR, I'd like to ask "What complexity is there?" From what I see on videos and youtube, it's always all about damage and nothing else. Sure it had some sort of "strategy" to them, but it all boiled down to "nuke as fast and without dying as much as possible, while avoiding these or that mechanic". And if you fail it's a insta-wipe...is this strategy? I've played raids where failing a mechanic didn't necessarily spell wipe, am I getting old or something? Last I played a raid that wasn't in this game, a Raid consisted on following tactics while doing a minimum amount of damage and possibly without dying, or else it would become harder, as in "You can still beat it but it'll take longer". When a dps dies in a raid here you might as well wipe, since the dps check usually fails at this part (usually, not always).

Also, dps checks in most mmorpgs weren't in every fight: they were used for gear checks more than anything else, which means that it was usually 2 or 3 at best in every raid...although most raids I played had more than 4 bosses.

Plus Azrael IS right: we don't have raid spots, they are jobs. I have constantly witnessed my static changing people for the sake of the raid, because he wasn't doing his best, or because his playstyle didn't work, or whatever was wrong. Sure some of them legit played badly or not good enough, but it was something that I never witnessed in an MMORPG since the early days of Ragnarok (I dunno, maybe because I'm EU and my server is NA: raids in EU seem to be much more easy going).
But yes, as far as I'm concerned a raid spot acts like a job in this game: you miss it once you might lose your spot. I know that because during FCOB I had to use another computer because mine was broken, and if I hadn't that ready I would've probably be replaced. After all the hardships to join it and learn the mechanics, to be replaced for just missing one day? That would be insane.

But if players are fine with how things are, I guess it's fine. But bigger raids would mean more people to raid with, just saying...

Deducing how to deal with mechanics or mitigate damage is strategizing. Most youtube videos are clears, where the group already knows what they need to do. If you watch live raids on twitch or look for video breakdowns like what Elysium posted here, you get a better idea of what strategies are involved to beat these fights. In the end, all fights in every game can be boiled down to "do x amount of damage as fast as possible and don't die." Complexity comes from the mechanics they throw at you and how quickly or efficiently you can avoid them. And groups can survive a death or two, depending on the phase.

This is true of every game though. People will kick out players in GW2 or WoW for sub-optimal performance if that's the kind of group they are. The harder the content, the higher the expectation from players. Midcore to casual statics are more likely to accept a string of wipes compared to hardcore groups, especially if they're all friends/FC mates. Switching out people whose playstyle differs enough to hinder the raid isn't necessarily a bad thing. If they can't adapt, then it's probably better for them to find another group where it won't be an issue. That said, I wouldn't raid with a group demanding enough I'll be kicked if I have a legitimate reason I can't show up. Most groups though will ask for a temp to fill your spot that week only. I see a lot of those in PF or even on Reddit. So it sounds like you just had a very impatient group.

But you also get more mistakes. Funny as it might be, Weeping City Savage would... well, live up to its name.

[Voltyblast]

That said, I wouldn't raid with a group demanding enough I'll be kicked if I have a legitimate reason I can't show up. Most groups though will ask for a temp to fill your spot that week only. I see a lot of those in PF or even on Reddit. So it sounds like you just had a very impatient group.

No, this was in all statics I saw. Yes saw, because I couldn't join most of them: they required far too much for me to join, things like "must know everything until last phase" or "3 mistakes then kick". I was touched by lady luck to get a group back the FCOB back then, without mentioning that I had to ask for a carry for t9 (because my previous static wouldn't care about helping me). Again, it's all a job: if you're useless, you're not going to be picked in. Except this is a game: last I checked it shouldn't be this...stiff and hostile? Even in other games I can join groups without knowing tactics: people would explain me what to do.

And this leads to another big issue I have with the raiding scene in this game: the experience required. Not even a day after 3.3 hits and people already demanding nidhogg ex super duper expert people to finish it. I get it, they beated the boss, good job and I'm glad for them: I'm not blaming them for requiring expert people for this and I'm sure everyone would do the same, but how can I possibly join a group if I have zero experience? Join a learning team? No! They also require experience! Yes even training groups requires me with knowledge of the fight. How can I receive experience if I need experience? It's philosoraptor all over again!

And this could be fixed with larger raids, even 16 man, to allow more people to learn things up. Smaller groups means also less room to make mistakes: if you screw up A or B it's over, it's usually not going further than that. But with 16 or 24 it's easier to learn without necessarily wipe it. Yes it also means there's more chance to mistakes, but also allows more room to error. You don't see Machi wipes if one dies or something, but while doing my raids of coil in ARR if someone died, it was game over. DPS died? Fail the dps check. Healer dies? Not enough mana, and tank dies. Tank dies? Not enough hp to receive a tank buster (ah without mentioning that you also lost your tanking stance back then! Wasn't that lovely?). You say you can recover, but I never, EVER, witnessed a recovery during my raiding times. I was a tank anyway.

So until then, I'm not going to touch raiding scene of this game: it's far too toxic and too hostile for my tastes (maybe because I'm EU? As I said, I always had nice teams in other games and would explain me what to do. In this game is very rare). However I'm also not going to change their ways of playing, but just wished that it allowed more people in it and just be a tiny bit more open for everyone to learn things up. And yes there's the raid finder: it doesn't work.

Speaking of "do x amount of damage as fast as possible and don't die", the problem are the dps checks and not the amount of damage itself. Infact this also leads to the problem of parsers, which is heavily required beacuse of how basically everything is a damage check. This isn't related though as there are a ton of topics in the forums about this, but it shows how it could be fixed by making the raid fights less about outputting damage and more about actual tactics.

If you don't agree, then so be it anyway: I experienced raiding in ARR and I'm not going to go over that stress over again.
And no, I'm not new to raiding.