CNJ = WHM and THM = BLM

[AmyRae]

Yes, we get it. Thaumaturge is dark, with lots of dark knight and red mage spells at its disposal. They drain, absorb and enfeeble life.

Meanwhile Conjurers have 33 black mage spells primarily composed of elemental magic (fitting with Gridania's overt elemental themes). They may have healing spells, but they certainly pack a punch with their vast library of elemental nukes, there's no denying it.

People didn't chose the Black Mage job in Final Fantasies past because they like to absorb the accuracy and MP out of the creatures they fought, they did it so they could set them ablaze with Fire spells or alight them with Lightning spells. And yet, Conjurers were the ones to deliver this light show, not the Thaumaturge.

This is the conundrum; nothing else is.

[Neptune]

Yes, we get it. Thaumaturge is dark, with lots of dark knight and red mage spells at its disposal. They drain, absorb and enfeeble life.

Meanwhile Conjurers have 33 black mage spells primarily composed of elemental magic (fitting with Gridania's overt elemental themes). They may have healing spells, but they certainly pack a punch with their vast library of elemental nukes, there's no denying it.

People didn't chose the Black Mage job in Final Fantasies past because they like to absorb the accuracy and MP out of the creatures they fought, they did it so they could set them ablaze with Fire spells or alight them with Lightning spells. And yet, Conjurers were the ones to deliver this light show, not the Thaumaturge.

This is the conundrum; nothing else is.

Thank you Amy Rae. Everyone, please go drink some tea and let this post stimulate your minds.

[Tonkra]

Yes, we get it. Thaumaturge is dark, with lots of dark knight and red mage spells at its disposal. They drain, absorb and enfeeble life.

Meanwhile Conjurers have 33 black mage spells primarily composed of elemental magic (fitting with Gridania's overt elemental themes). They may have healing spells, but they certainly pack a punch with their vast library of elemental nukes, there's no denying it.

People didn't chose the Black Mage job in Final Fantasies past because they like to absorb the accuracy and MP out of the creatures they fought, they did it so they could set them ablaze with Fire spells or alight them with Lightning spells. And yet, Conjurers were the ones to deliver this light show, not the Thaumaturge.

This is the conundrum; nothing else is.

which 33 skills, please? if you mean skills like elemental debuffspells for each elemental type (freeze etc.) its really a joke for an argument. and you know that. thm has this in one spell (scourge : dmg+resi debuff) - and not 5 different elements. just 2.

The real difference is only made through the elemental/ancient spells ... otherwise he is much much more a healing type. (silena, protect, blindna, curega, cure, all buffs etc.)
all of those seem to be pure and healing. (in contrast to the thms regen spell, which uses his own lifepoints)

WE ALL know about that (my main class is conjurer(druid) itself)
.. but how do you play in group as a conjurer? you play ever since mostly with your curing spells and sometimes you use your dmg skills. yes.
because fire etc are nature type ... its about a black mage being dark (yes he had elemental spells in all FF's) now its only about the ROLE.. which fits better to a whm? a class which is used to sacrificing, mind maniupulating, weakening, believing in the god of death... or is it a class which draws its power from nature?

i'd say the second one... your typical black mage elemental spells were switched to thm (maybe). my conjurer is also far higher than my thm, and i wanted to play more the black mage role. but i see for myself.. THM fits better into the black mage role than a conjurer (druid) would.

black magic isnt all about elemental spells... they use bio, poison, gravity, scourge, which is really black magic and dark.


whats your agrument for a conjurer(druid) nature driven character class becoming a black mage? is a black mage about "listening to his enviroment"? really?
and mostly all of THM skills are arguments for a black mage exept banish, dia and some of those.

but we shouldnt start that stupid discussion again. i dont think that the developer team itself.. which created that world and lore isnt mistaken.. you really cant tell me.

go and level your thm and you're fine...
it is ONLY you guys arguing because you dont want to see your main class pushing into a specific role.
oh gosh.

[AmyRae]

which 33 skills, please? if you mean skills like elemental debuffspells for each elemental type (freeze etc.) its really a joke for an argument.

The real difference is only made through the elemental/ancient spells ... otherwise he is much much more a healing type. (silena, protect, blindna, curega, cure, all buffs etc.)

WE ALL know about that (my main class is conjurer(druid) itself)
.. but how do you play in group as a conjurer? you play ever since mostly with your curing spells and sometimes you use your dmg skills. yes.
because fire etc are nature type ... its about a black mage being dark (yes he had elemental spells in all FF's) now its only about the ROLE.. which fits better to a whm? a class which is used to sacrificing, mind maniupulating, weakening, believing in the god of death... or is it a class which draws its power from nature?

i'd say the second one... your typical black mage elemental spells were switched to thm (maybe). my conjurer is also far higher than my thm, and i wanted to play more the black mage role. but i see for myself.. THM fits better into the black mage role than a conjurer (druid) would.

black magic isnt all about elemental spells... they use bio, poison, gravity, scourge, which is really black magic and dark.


whats your agrument for a conjurer(druid) nature driven character class becoming a black mage? is a black mage about "listening to his enviroment"? really?

You want to talk about "role"?

Anyone who thinks about black mages thinks about a job that nukes with elemental spells, as you'd expect in any of the RPGs in the series. If you're invited to an event in FFXI as a black mage, you're going to be expected to nuke (with your elemental spells, not Bio) first and foremost with anything else being secondary. That's the role as we know it.

Conjurers have almost all the nukes. 18 of them, in fact. Thaumaturges have 3 nukes, and they're light and dark spells which are not even considered elements in this game. By and large, the Thaumaturge resembles an enfeebling role, not a nuker or a healer. It doesn't fit as a White Mage or a Black Mage, in my opinion.

And to pretend like this blatant discrepancy has no legitimacy at all is the real joke around here. It's not the end of the anyone's world if we have to accept it, and there may be more details to be revealed than what we understand. But it's definitely not the straight line from Thaumaturge to Black Mage, as anyone who understands that job would recognize it, in spite of what some are making it out to be.

[Tonkra]

You want to talk about "role"?

Anyone who thinks about black mages thinks about a job that nukes with elemental spells, as you'd expect in any of the RPGs in the series. If you're invited to an event in FFXI as a black mage, you're going to be expected to nuke (with your elemental spells, not Bio) first and foremost with anything else being secondary. That's the role as we know it.

Conjurers have almost all the nukes. 18 of them, in fact. Thaumaturges have 3 nukes, and they're light and dark spells which are not even considered elements in this game. By and large, the Thaumaturge resembles an enfeebling role, not a nuker or a healer. It doesn't fit as a White Mage or a Black Mage, in my opinion.

And to pretend like this blatant discrepancy has no legitimacy at all is the real joke around here. It's not the end of the anyone's world if we have to accept it, and there may be more details to be revealed than what we understand. But it's definitely not the straight line from Thaumaturge to Black Mage, as anyone who understands that job would recognize it, in spite of what some are making it out to be.

oh please 18? which one? ... and because the damage spells of conjurer are seperated in each element its clear that these skills are more... gross argument sorry.

you see black mage as an elementalist or what? what about "bio", "Poison", silence etc. ... seeing lulu casting them in FFX for example? do i remind wrong or didnt had the black mage skills like "gravity" (which appearance was almost like scourge) in some series? dark spells...

black mage is NOT all about elemental skills. then you are definatley false.

you cant really say which one is the blm... because BOTH CLASSES are mixed up, although thm hasnt got really healing skills (poisona, curega, no cure, no protect etc.)..
what kind of skills you see the thm to be a white mage ? WHICH one? regen, which is not really a whm type of regen, because it uses his TP?



thm is blm and thats it.. The Developer itself said that and you cant turn it around if you want to interpret something in there.


i mean which is the argument for a thm to be a holy pure whitemage? ;D banish and dia? ;XD
its senseless to discuss... the developer is wrong and you are right ;D

[Klive]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...9#post441509So
each class is being cut down to 15 abilities... and then you can equip 10 from another class.

Considering CJN has about 48 (not counting the II and higher spells) spells. The mage classes will be losing some spells.

Major class changes anyone?

[Estellios]

How many of those are Tier II/III of spells though? It drastically reduces the number =P

[Klive]

How many of those are Tier II/III of spells though? It drastically reduces the number =P

None, I didn't count them. None of the II and III were counted.

and THM has about 34 abilities. ( Not counting any II or III repeats)

The melee have around 16-24 (not counting II and III) abilities.

Mages are getting hit hardest with this change.

[syntaxlies]

who thinks con is keeping elemental spells

[Klive]

who thinks con is keeping elemental spells

Right now, I'm on the mindset... I have no F**King clue. I'm looking at my THM spell/ability list and trying to figure which 15 they will let me keep.