My take on Samurai as a tank

[Shippuu]

I'll simply regurgitate my post from another thread where it's explained:

The article in question where it was first mentioned is actually this japanese interview from Game Watch. This is the first article that began the spreading of "Yoshi-P said SAM is a DPS!" that goes around, and it comes from a very simplified translation summary that was posted (to reddit I believe) that basically said "In Yoshida's head he sees SAM as a dps."

But when you actually translate the interview, it goes more in depth as to why. He reiterates that Samurai was initially the developer's choice for Heavensward's tank(meaning depsite how Yoshi felt about it, it was still on the development floor as a potential tank). But then the decision was later changed to Dark Knight to better fit the theme of Ishgard. Then he goes into talking about the mental image of what he pictures in his mind when he thinks about a Samurai. And that is of a kinagashi wearing iaido master.

僕の中の侍のイメージは、着流しに刀を下げ、居合の達人という感じです。どちらかと言えば、ロールはDPSのイメージの方が強いのです。

In bold is 着流し = Kinagashi. 居合 = Iaido. For those who don't know, a kinagashi looks like this:



This explains a lot when you then look at when Yoshida thinks about a Samurai and why he's say it would make more sense as a dps. And why later he would talk about things like calling a tank samurai a Shogun because again he thinks of samurai as the later ronin-like archetype, not a warrior decked out in ornate armor.

So that becomes an issue, you see plenty of people clamoring for a DPS Samurai, but I have a feeling a lot of them would be disappointed if they ended up with essentially a robe wearing version of a samurai, and not the big armored version.

So in a sense, not even Yoshida sees the armored variety of samurai as a DPS.

[Shippuu]

Anyway, the robe-clad Swordsmaster wielding katanas is a staple of Ivalice games that XIV is more tied to than other entries so there is some weight to that.

Except this is just factually untrue. The Parivir class which was a ronin-like katana wielder was only in a single game set in Ivalice. In fact every time Samurai has been in a Final Fantasy game it has worn/been represented by the iconic heavy samurai armor. The characters/archetypes that are the robe wearing variety are distinctly NOT called samurai (Parivir, Swordmaster, Auron is referred as a Warrior Monk, mononofu etc).

The armored samurai is the more common occurring archetype in Ivalice set games.

[Cybylt]

I think I was conflating my times with Tactics and Tactics Ogre when it came to the Swordmaster design... maybe a bit of Bravely Default?


That's a really cool insight on the explicit meaning of what he said, though. My own thoughts had always been SAM would be when we finally get another "medium armor" type to share gear with dragoon.

[Khalithar]

Swordmaster design... maybe a bit of Bravely Default?

Funny enough you could turn the Swordmaster in to a tank specializing in counter attacks in that game which is exactly what I want to see Samurai in this game become. Damage reflection is one of my favorite mechanics in MMO's.

[Shippuu]

That's a really cool insight on the explicit meaning of what he said, though. My own thoughts had always been SAM would be when we finally get another "medium armor" type to share gear with dragoon.

I get why people would think this, but when you break it down, why does DRG have to suddenly share their armor? Monks don't have to share theirs, Ninja don't have to share theirs. DRG having "medium" armor doesn't matter when every other melee job has their own classification of armor too. Samurai, if going with Yoshida's idea of them, would end up sharing gear with monk or ninja rather than DRG.

That's not to say it's impossible, but Samurai just make a perfect fit for another tank. There aren't many iconic FF jobs left that can fit the current mold of tank in this game (Heavy armor). Plus samurai in Final fantasy games have a strong history of defensive abilities, protecting others, and capable of being the party's tank or as close as you can with whatever game mechanics are there.

The thought of protecting others also fits exactly in line with the romanticized notions of Bushido (much like chivalry). Hell, even the two named samurai archetype characters in main FF games were staunch defenders/protecors/bodyguards of others.

It is just the most logical choice while also being one that requires a lower level of additional development.

[Kazrah]

Samurai as DPS or RIOT!

I have a better idea: no Samurai ever. It's thematically unoriginal, incredibly unimpressive and hopelessly unimaginative as the pipe dream from FFXI. There are so many more interesting possibilities for a sword job, regardless of it being either a tank or a DPS, and we can definitely come up with something better and far more interesting.

That being said, the basic concept the OP has isn't too completely terrible, but I also agree with the previous statements that there will still be a template to follow when it comes to developing tank jobs and that's something that has to be taken into account regardless of how "inside the box" it is.

[Cybylt]

I think all of the melees should have to start sharing their armor with other jobs at some point and it's a bit silly as is that the armoring breakdown is Tank, Healer, Caster, Ranged, Monk, Ninja, Dragoon. Monk and Ninja could/should have been sharing already if they just kept the old stat spec but if Dex is a stat they want to go with for melee jobs as well then between those three we have bases covered for melee fighters in different armor classes.

Ninja while not mechanically has quests that already cover the dutiful bodyguard identity so I'm not sure they'll want to re-tread that with Samurai. We've got the much more popular in pop culture wanderer archetype that is like the knight errant that the Paladin fulfills or the warrior seeking perfection of their craft like, well, Warrior so those aren't something new that could be taken up either.

There's one other thing, though. They could do both? Other games have had Katana and Great Katana as separate weapon classes.

[Shippuu]

There are other job quests that also fulfill a bodyguard type archetype as well (DRK, AST, etc.) Quests have you protecting others all the time so that's not really a reason to rule out an archetype. There's plenty of ideas they can come up with for the job story that would fit.

And sure they could do both, but the only game where there was such a split with weapons was FFXI, where the katana went to Ninja. Every other iteration of Samurai simply used the one classification of Katana. It depends on how SE wants to do it if they're up for basically retreading the same job twice for two different roles. Also there's always the option of anot her multi-role job even if it's unlikely.

[Cybylt]

DRK was fight club, or persona 4 if you prefer to face your true self. Later on you move to vigilanteism but that resolved with the realization that a DRK only going for a duty to protect is bad at what they're doing. Didn't play AST so can't speak there.

I don't see them returning to the Class -> Job well again but it would be appreciated and be a means to satisfy as many people as possible with Samurai.

[EdwinLi]

SAM Job's story will certainly be in question as it may focus more on being a Samurai not fully loyal to anyone due to the WoL being a Adventurer.

Then they have to cover 3 Story Arcs of SAM Job's storyline as 30 - 50 is Arc 1 (aka The Apprentice Arc), 50-60 is Arc 2 (aka Master Arc), and if things follow the same lvl 60 - 70 is Arc 3 (aka Grand Master Arc).