Why Eliminate Guild Marks?

[RemVye]

Guild Marks are actually a neat concept to obtain more customization for you class so I find it kind of strange that you plan on getting rid of it with the next update. When it comes to the introduction of new jobs I felt that perhaps you could use your Guild marks to obtain special job abilities for those jobs rather then all at once or through leveling.

Also if you consider keeping the cap at 50, Guild Marks offer a way to obtain new abilities without having to lift the level cap or place them somewhere around 1-50. If you were to keep abilities as they are now and then add to what can be learned by a class it would help prevent newcommers being overwhelmed by a wide range of abilities and once they understand the basis of their class they would be able to invest Guild marks into the abilities that they feel fit their playstyle.

By just having it all be level based I think it takes away from the overall characterization that can be done with your character and it really takes away a part of depth that could've been expanded on greatly. I hope you might reconsider taking away Guild Marks and implement it ina manner that can work with the Job system as well as a means to obtain abilities that are always being added to the list of Guild mark abilities.

Customize your character?

You are a gimp if you don't have all of your class abilities. Hate to inform you. The only one you don't have to get is the specialization XXXXmanship for the class you are playing.

[BlaiseLallaise]

Blaise - do you have any design ideas as to what could fill in the currently wasted potential that'd be worth the premium-cost dev time available before "once 2.0 is stable"? I know /I/ don't, other than ambiguously "moar storyline plz", but I'm legitimately interested in other peoples' design suggestions.

Forgive me if I implied any worth "before 2.0", but I certainly feel they can and should do so much with guilds in the future.

First, and most obviously, is storyline quests. I'm disappointed that there are only 3. A guild is a prime candidate for building an involved side-story. Adding up all the guilds, that is a lot of storyline potential that can keep people interested a long time. Requiring a certain progression in the main story to even begin these few quests only hinders the potential.

Guilds can also have advancing ranks, or reputation, opening a player up to better benefits for being involved in the guild as they progress through the class quests. Kinda like a mini-company, I guess. Also similar to how the guilds in the Elder Scrolls games progress, for those who are familiar with them.

And if story quests weren't enough, they could even introduce guild-specific leves or quests that can be done to increase the reputation even further.

Guild marks can also be used in a greater capacity than currently. I get so many, but currently have little use for them. Why not have unique (but not OP) class-specific gear that can be purchased with guild marks? For example, as a Pugilist, I could focus on evasion, or I could focus on raw power. Class-specific gear acquired through the guild could be designed to emphasize those. It doesn't even have to stop there. Food, traits, buff scrolls, and more!

Did I read something about titles in the future? That could be another player goal associated with guilds.

Ultimately, I feel that they are currently building Company content the way they should have built guild content.

[Kiote]

I wouldn't call Guild Marks customization, but it is a very viable form of character advancement. When you consider what they did to the leveling curve for battle classes this game needs all the horizontal leveling it can get. Players hit level 50 and it's a dead stop. The only things left at that point are Materia and Guild Marks. Take the Guild marks away and now there is just materia. How long can we honestly last in character development with only 1 thing to work on. Most people I know had full materia on there Rank 50s in less than a month..

[Griss]

You just described most of the RPG genre. Seems to have been a good design for a lot of people.

Working towards something builds character, and dare I echo the boards, a sense of acomplishment. Now, I'm not against changing the system up and/or making it better, but automating the abilities completely? ...I'd rather he not do that, please.

I'm sorry, i didn't exactly state that correctly. So lets give it another shot.

So locking basic skills abilitys and traits behind a superfluous grind wall was a good idea?

Let me further refine that.
The idea of lateral character growth is good. Heck its what the armory system is built upon. but to tell you the truth i do not feel any sense of accomplishment when i fork over the marks to unlock a basic attack, skill, or class trait that should have been part of the skill package in the first place.

Now do not take this as i am saying the whole shebang is with out merit. The guild marks system was definitely cool on paper, but it suffered from the same problem that a lot of the other cool on paper things that were in at launch. It was done in such a way that when you really look at it you are just left scratching your head. When you step back its a bit like playing pachinko in a place where gambling for cash is illegal. Instead of the machine paying out cash, you get balls that you exchange for tokens. then go next door to redeem your tokens for cash.

I think i might be rambling a bit now so let me wrap this up.

Jumping through extra hoops for really cool and game play redefining things, ok (example xi's merit system). Jumping through hoops for basic stuff that should have been given to you in the process of jumping through the ones you already have, No bueno.

[Kiote]

Jumping through extra hoops for really cool and game play redefining things, ok (example xi's merit system). Jumping through hoops for basic stuff that should have been given to you in the process of jumping through the ones you already have, No bueno.

I don't disagree at all. But that is simply a matter of what you can purchase with guild marks.. The Two basic attack skills should have been Automatically learned. A lot of traits such as Fast Cast would be Ok to be auto learned. But things like that stat adjustment skill and the Cross class proficiency skills are a great way to customize a character outside of the basic grind to the top.

This system definitely needs to be adjusted and improved, but it definitely should not be removed from the game.

Things that would be kool to learn via Guilds could include

Killer Traits

Damage Type Modifications

Stats Modifications

Elemental Modifications

Class Proficiency

Skill Upgrades

Eluder Skills

Class Specific Emotes

This is just a list of traits. There could also be Items or Various Bonuses that can be obtained through Guild Marks. Really the system as it stands is perfectly fine. It is only the things that you can purchase that need to change.

[Physic]

I'm sorry, i didn't exactly state that correctly. So lets give it another shot.

So locking basic skills abilitys and traits behind a superfluous grind wall was a good idea?

Let me further refine that.
The idea of lateral character growth is good. Heck its what the armory system is built upon. but to tell you the truth i do not feel any sense of accomplishment when i fork over the marks to unlock a basic attack, skill, or class trait that should have been part of the skill package in the first place.

Now do not take this as i am saying the whole shebang is with out merit. The guild marks system was definitely cool on paper, but it suffered from the same problem that a lot of the other cool on paper things that were in at launch. It was done in such a way that when you really look at it you are just left scratching your head. When you step back its a bit like playing pachinko in a place where gambling for cash is illegal. Instead of the machine paying out cash, you get balls that you exchange for tokens. then go next door to redeem your tokens for cash.

I think i might be rambling a bit now so let me wrap this up.

Jumping through extra hoops for really cool and game play redefining things, ok (example xi's merit system). Jumping through hoops for basic stuff that should have been given to you in the process of jumping through the ones you already have, No bueno.

uh i think its just a question of your perception.

1. in your perception they are making you jump through hoops
2. in your perception they should give you these skills free.

in your example merits, the only thing that made merit skills different from the skills before them is they were merits. if they gave me formless fists at level 1 or level 75 or after doing a quest it would have made no difference at all. Shikiyo or whatever on sam is a skill i could have used from level 1 onwards.

Also its a type of progression that doesnt involve grinding exp monsters, its a good idea to have multiple ways to progress so that it doesnt become so monotonous. It also is a method of making people do some type of story element, More people are familiar with the quests from guilds than the main storyline. The biggest problem with it, imo is that it wasnt developed enough, they should have had more storylines, more skills, and some things that actually tested your merit. They shouldnt have made run of the mill guild leves the only way to get the marks, and the extreme randomness. You should have been able to choose from some sidequests for points, that had something to do with your discipline.

Taking it away just makes progression slightly more one dimensional

[BlaiseLallaise]

I won't let this thread die without a fight. It's too important of a topic and must be brought to the top. So many very good comments reside in this thread. It would be a shame for them to go unheard.

The problem with guild marks is not their existence, it's that they are not being used to their full potential.

[syntaxlies]

would be nice if guild marks could be used for class specific useable items. throwing weapons food, ect.

[BlaiseLallaise]

Indeed. Consumables are a great way to use guild marks, as well as maintain a demand for them.

[Innes]

guild marks for class specific eq!!