Jumping confirmed

[Hyrist]

Chopping a giant post down a bit:

Look in the mirror, you're being pompous, not me.

Again with the counter-accusations. Why can't you hold a respectful conversation? I didn't even call you pompous. I said you're being overly aggressive. You still haven't changed that tone.

I've accepted that people want jumping in the game, why you can't accept I want to be able to turn it off and be able to remove people completely from my screen as a blacklist function should is beyond me.

I accept that you want them. I disagree they should be implemented.

As far as ignoring players out of existence, both model and text. (Sort of a new argument as far as my participation in it.)... um... That's an awkward desire to have in an MMO.

It sort of bypasses the entire idea of an MMO as a social element to be able to just block out all the people you don't like. Suddenly you've got your friends and/or talking to people that don't exist to you, doing activities with them.

It's fine for forums when words are the only medium, but in a game I think it goes too far.

I mean, it's your right to be antisocial, but why are you in a social medium if so? If you don't like someone or a group of someones that bad, change servers. Otherwise I believe being able to completely block someone out like that is a bit far off the deep end.

There are plenty of people in games I don't like, but it's a big world and I'm ok with sharing the space with others. It's enough that I don't have to listen to them. Wanting to erase them for existence... I'll be honest, begs questions of the person desiring that.

As far as mechanical reasons to say no to that: PVP in general, claim competition on world NMs, or on monsters in general, positioning concerns during larger scale events. Pretty much anything that includes content you might both be interacting with, by chance or on purpose, is a potential problem in that circumstance.

It also opens you up for anonymous harassment ("Why did that monster I was going to claim disappear, oh! Because someone on my Blist claimed it in front of me and I couldn't see it. Now... which guy on my Blist did that?")

So there's more than just personal stance disagreement on why you can't filter out someone's model completely. It can really cause some awkward situations there.
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As for my reasons against jump filtering; I've said them before, but I will state it again just for clarity.

- You cannot currently ignore motions in this game. So you're singeing out one function among many equally annoying in potential.
- Implementing such a feature inherently limits the function of further development of said feature in any further update. This doesn't just 'filter out' your desire not to want to see jumping. This removes all possibility for jumping to be anything other than an aesthetic mechanic, which would remove the point of jumping all together.
- It only regards the issue on a private level.
It will cause both pathing confusion and still cause immersion loss. What's the difference between a person jumping over a fence and a person walking through it when it comes to immersion loss?


See, being able to filter this isn't the whole of your request, as you say. You're wanting this to have zero impact on the game, and THEN be able to ignore that too.

If they are implementing jump, I would rather it serve a function, and then have limited use in areas in which it serves no purpose, than to simply be able an ignorable process all together.

That would be my compromise at least. I have no problem with people jumping at will.

I understand your stance on wanting not to have to annoyed by someone say, constantly jumping in the middle of town, or skipping out on the road somewhere. But putting it on ignore feature like that really can cause problems for this making it anything but a limited function, and I can't agree with that.

For the record, I don't agree with range-based AoEs coming from the enemy mob. If anything, everyone in a party should be affected by an AoE regardless of range or positioning. I don't like platformers, and I'm not here to play some silly platforming game.

You're already out of your comfort zone then. Ifrit's plumes only effect the areas they light. Ifrit's charge only effects the areas in which his model crosses over.

Several NM and non NM monsters have moves entirely based on positioning (Doe's charge and back-kick come to mind.) And this dosen't even touch player range limitations and positioning concerns, which will be expanded on with the combo system.

If I am to take you at your word, SE's already gone against your preferences for the sake of creating a better experience for those who do not mind this. Yes, there are AoEs that are dodge-able and undodgeable. Both mechanics exists, and they will continue to exist. They're exciting, in my, and many other peoples' opinions.

I don't see why jumping should be kept out of that except for lag reasons.

I'm sorry, but it's already here and here to stay, and many people enjoy it. I don't see a purpose in holding greater depths in the games mechanics back on behalf of what I can only see as preference towards a dated playstyle.

We've already crossed that line.

(Oh and if you didn't noticed, we're still using turn-based concepts... I mean, you do realize you can't just use an ability or attack whenever you want since everything is under cooldown? Even in an action/adventure game, you'll find turn-based concepts. The only mainstream genre you really won't find turn-based concepts are mindless shooters.)

Except those turn-based concepts are becoming aggressively more and more muted with each iteration.

Take for instance, Dragon Age vs Dragon Age II's combat styles. PC version, you have auto attack, certainly, but the console versions has the option to manually attack.

But you're right, the process works in reverse. More and more RPG and other Genre mechanics are merging together. This is not a bad thing. Sure, I understand you don't want to play a platformer. But some platform elements could be used to enhance the game further and make it more exciting. Jumping can be used to this end as well. If it was, your filter idea would be harmful to that potential if implemented.

And, I mean no offense by this, but it seems your ideals about MMOs and games in general are a bit on the fringe, when it comes to common opinion. I might be wrong in my assessment, I'm sorry if so, but that's just my perspective. Regardless, I would rather not see the potential for good development for the game be held back on behalf a few.

I want this game to be successful beyond just a niche audience, and that's going to take changes both of us might be uncomfortable with. In this case, jump is a long time coming, and overdue to many people. And if they're going to implement it, I'd rather it be done right, and done to enhance the gameplay. That classes with your global filtering idea, I'm sorry.

But I did offer alternatives of my own.

TL;DR:

Ignoring players is a bit too antisocial in a social game and can be abused in several manners.

Ignoring Jump limits its functionality in the game, and if they're implementing jump it should at least be useful.

The game already implements ideas you disagree with rather greatly.

You're free to disagree, but the game should appeal to its widest base, regardless of the comforts of a minority. That includes changes I would be uncomfortable with too.

[Firon]

i hate these forums sometimes people always trying to double the devs work, I don't like when other people's char looks at me when they target me, they should make an toggle for that too!

[Jynx]

I'd just like to point out I have no qualms with Lalafells having circus high jumps, I'm just pointing out that like with weapons and other things it's something developers need to compromise "Realism" with to make the game fair for everyone.

Nobody really argues it either, it just makes sense from a development and player point of view.

[Hyrist]

I'd just like to point out I have no qualms with Lalafells having circus high jumps, I'm just pointing out that like with weapons and other things it's something developers need to compromise "Realism" with to make the game fair for everyone.

Nobody really argues it either, it just makes sense from a development and player point of view.

Lalafells have always had difficulties with physics balance though. Even in FFXI where they can jump from standing still to a running gait that's just as fast as Elvaan Thf's flee speed if the Tarutaru has flee too.

I just make an excuse that they're surprisingly light weight, as is their weaponry is both surprisingly lightweight and 'sharp' (which is why a Gaxe on a Taru does the same as a Galka's base damage wise.)

Some suspension of disbelief is required in any fantasy game. Apparently though, people don't like stretching it much.

[Jynx]

Some suspension of disbelief is required in any fantasy game. Apparently though, people don't like stretching it much.

Oh of course, it's never really bothered me that's the way things are. It's just when someone tries to tell me that it actually revolves around real world Physics...

[Hyrist]

Oh of course, it's never really bothered me that's the way things are. It's just when someone tries to tell me that it actually revolves around real world Physics...

Best not to get too involved in situations like that. Some exceptions exist, but often prove the rule.

Fleas or many insects for existence, and their jumping potential, often defy what would be the conventional sense of gravity, where it's just a density of mass thing, mixed with pretty much high-tension springboards for feet.

I've always gone under the assumption that Final Fantasy games feature low gravity worlds. And when keeping that in mind, a lot of the physics questions its games raise fall back into place rather nicely.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

Oh of course, it's never really bothered me that's the way things are. It's just when someone tries to tell me that it actually revolves around real world Physics...

You come here midway into the discussion. Which is probably why you assume things of me that were never really there. The point I was making was against someone using realism as a reference. I was actually using it to combat their point by saying that realism actually proves that it is true that all races can jump at the same height.

If you still do not believe this, that is not my problem. That is an issue of ignorance that you may have to work out with yourself.

I started this discussion stating that I dislike putting realism into games such as these and using real world physics is not the way to go for a fantasy game. That is a ridiculous outlook. However, if you are going to attempt to use real world physics against why the lalafell is jumping at the same height as the human in terms of the space between the ground and their feet. That part, although it looked like it need to be lowered and tweaked, is correct using real world physics.

[Dragon]

I don't get what point you are trying to make. All I said was that there can't be a middle ground for a jump feature. You either have it or you don't. You want them to blurr out people while they are jumping? Or them to look like they are still walking through an object when they actually jump over it?

Answer that please, because you didn't answer it the first time.

What I want to know is, where can I buy what you're smoking? It seems quite obvious, that with the devs being smart as they are, could find a way to substitute in another animation. Personally, I'd like to be able to replace jumping animations with faceplant treatments.

LMAO! You sir made my day with that comment. That's rich since how the hell their going to put a jump command input on the controller since is already set with current game without remapping the whole thing all over again.

Thanks, but I'm a mistress, not a sir!

[Sathie]

I would love to see this, but only if they do it well to make it seem real. If they add some new tech that help makes it seem realistic that would be awesome. But it really could kill the game if done wrong. Oh well, good luck! And I hope Dragoon jump is great!

[Zumi]

Jumping is a good thing finally bringing the game up to current gen mmo standards.