Jumping confirmed

[Denmo]

The fact is is that it is not needed and MANY people believe that it will negatively impact their game experience because it WILL turn Final Fantasy into just another MMO with people hopping around in towns.

That's not a fact, that's an opinion. Even a widely held opinion (not sure if that's the case here) != fact.

If you can't understand that then that is your own short coming.

And yet just a few sentences ago you say:

Insulting people for their opinion is unjustified. That is called an ad hominem attack and is really like bullying.

and then:

It is impossible to expect anyone to respect anyone else's opinion. Especially in an MMO forum.

There seems to be a conflict of interest here!

There are many that do not want people bunny hopping all over town for various reasons.

It is very sad people say that they will make a video or jump around to annoy people.

I really hope that they do read some of these posts and realize what a HUGE mistake they are making if they add jump with no restrictions or limitations.

Many people do not want a duplication of other features of MMO's without justification.

If someone wants to hop around like an idiot, they're free to do so. It's no less annoying than people spamming /laugh emotes in camps or in the city.

Like it or not, waaaaaay back when this game was just released, there was a poll that asked about jumping. The majority of players said they wanted it in the game. So that's what we're getting.

[Fensfield]

If someone wants to hop around like an idiot, they're free to do so. It's no less annoying than people spamming /laugh emotes in camps or in the city.

And some of us would be more than happy with a very short emote cool-down, too. In fact, you know what? I'd really rather like a delay of about five seconds on being able to use standard emotes. .. Although before someone inevitably claims as much, I'm not arguing that jump ought have a five second delay and all. Personally, I favour something more like the landing animation being locked; not least from the gameplay sense that it encourages people to try to time any game-relevant jumping rather than just spam and hope whatever they're aiming to achieve works out for them.

This is our opportunity to voice concerns about future features. The point is, if enough people voice concerns about it being spammed to all hell, perhaps the developers will consider implementing the feature in such a way as to make it so that people are not free to do so. The nature of jumping's implementation is at this stage not set in stone as a death-spammable bunny hop, and to a limited extent nor is it definite it's being implemented at all, although it is now extremely likely.


As for your little point about a conflict of interest.. so what? Human history's been one massive conflict of interests from that point of view. The ideal striven for, or even pointed out by someone who does the opposite, still has some small value (although obviously so does pointing out the person so saying's doing similar). Just because people act or even threaten to act like spiteful little bullies a lot of the time doesn't mean people shouldn't point out how horrible it makes them look.

I mean, really, how does, "I'm going to find the characters said they didn't want jumping and follow them around jumping endlessly just to annoy them, even though I got my way," not read like a total dick move ('scuse my language), and something for which any reasonable person ought look down on the poster of? ... Of course then they'd open themselves up to a harassment report but.. well, anyway.

[Dragon]

Dragon you're really too invested into this.

No, I'm not; but I'm the one that's willing to come to meet you at the middle in spite of the fact all those wanting jumping can't be assed to.

Jumping is not a major issue. In spite of the genre, this is just a game. Quit moping over a feature other people want that has virtually no impact on actual gameplay.

I'm not the one moping. I'm the one that found some middleground, and you still hate it!

Honestly, I don't care either way. I do hate invisible walls or tiny cliffs preventing my character from moving latterally over something they could easily climb or jump on. So yes, in this way jumping would be smart to impliment.

Jumping is still useless if they keep those invisible walls.

Are people going to hop around like bunnies and be annoying. Yep. But it's not as if that's not done already with emote spamming. If you're that easily broken up about something as simple as how someone else's character model moves, perhaps MMOs are not for you. There are plenty of other games that allow you to party with your friends online nowadays to have fun, and the fantasy genera is starting to pick up on the bug to. Why not play one of those instead? That way you can control your interaction with people if you feel as if you absolutely CANNOT tolerate immature behavior.

Oh please. Once again, I'm the one that came to a middleground. I do black list people that spam emotes for no apparent reasoning, and I'd love if those I black list didn't even appear on my screen at all.

As far as implementing a feature that removes the jump animation from the game. It seems to be a rather useless feature, one that could potentially harm your gameplay if you're not seeing your fellow players jump at a needed time.

Not even true, unless they implement platforming features. I don't want to play a damned platform game, I WANT AN MMORPG!

As far as finding a mechanical use for it. What about it being capable of evading low attacks? Flying enemies can evade low-to-ground attacks by virtue of dropping. Why not have some monster or player actions evaded in the same manner? This would be a good mechanic perhaps for some arena based battles at least, though, the lag issue would first have to be addressed.

Which is the primitive form of platform design, NOT an RPG design!

A jump feature is nothing to be in arms about. Yoshi-p seems to want to make jumps look well enough to be in the game and is trying to establish a good aesthetics for it as well, and there is room for actually making it useful in an MMO environmental (bypassing poorly designed trip-ups).

Some of you people are taking this way too seriously.

And being able to turn off jumping animation is nothing you or the rest of the crew that wants jumping should be in arms about either, but you obviously are or you'd be willing to support the middleground instead of being so extreme about what you want.

Here exists the difference: I am at least willing to support a middleground, you're obviously NOT!

[Hyrist]

No, I'm not; but I'm the one that's willing to come to meet you at the middle in spite of the fact all those wanting jumping can't be assed to.

Your tone belies your statement, as evidenced by the fact that you immediately segway into accusations at every possible opportunity. You need to calm down.

I'm not the one moping. I'm the one that found some middleground, and you still hate it!

Hate it? No. I don't 'hate' it at all. I see the problems with it and I listed those problems. It isn't a 'middle ground' to try to suggest being able to ignore something that might become a useful gameplay mechanic just because it can be abused immaturely. It shows intolerance on your part.

Jumping is still useless if they keep those invisible walls.

At the absolute bare minimum, it would make it clear that the invisible walls are, in fact, invisible walls instead of just bad model pathing. Having the jump function would allow you to disregard the latter and is often a useful design mechanic in environmental that are often riddeled with minor issues such as this. Outside Limsa Lominsa is a perfect example on how they could differentiate the two.

Oh please. Once again, I'm the one that came to a middleground. I do black list people that spam emotes for no apparent reasoning, and I'd love if those I black list didn't even appear on my screen at all.

Funny, as Emote spam isn't something you can filter graphically. Even if you Blist someone, the motions are still there. Why should you have the option to block jumping if you can't block waving? Again, this isn't a middle ground, it's just intolerance. When a person abuses the emote motions to harass someone, you report it. This can be applied to jump as well. But as far as people jumping around, or /laughing in game a lot you learn to walk away. Heck, turn down your settings so less models load and you won't even see them.

Not even true, unless they implement platforming features. I don't want to play a damned platform game, I WANT AN MMORPG!

By that logic, we should all be standing in lines waiting for our turn to smack the monster. Games evolve when they learn to add elements from different genres into their like. Perfect example is how the Mass Effect series added RPG elements to a shooter (or vice versa depending on your opinion).

If you think the trend of game's isn't pushing towards more action orientated, including MMORPGs, then you're in for a very large, sad shock.

Which is the primitive form of platform design, NOT an RPG design!

I'm sorry. I didn't realize you like to stand still on Ifrit's Plumes. How's that working for you?

You do realize that moving out of the way, or out of range of an Area of Effect attack is also a mechanic based off platformers, right?

And being able to turn off jumping animation is nothing you or the rest of the crew that wants jumping should be in arms about either, but you obviously are or you'd be willing to support the middleground instead of being so extreme about what you want.

I'm not in arms about the mechanic. I stated the mechanic is flawed. I'm in arms about your aggressive, overly assertive and attitude that's thinly veiled behind a bad excuse to say you want to be able to completely ignore jumping all together. "If it has to be in the game, I want never to have to be able to see it!" If so, can I get an option to make it so Wyverns and other pets can be blotted out of my game? I don't want the clutter on my combat screen, and having a Wyvern on my Dragoon ruins my immersion.

Sound off? That's because it is, and it's exactly what you are doing from a third person perspective.

Here exists the difference: I am at least willing to support a middleground, you're obviously NOT!

You find 'middle ground' like a conservative political activist finds a 'middle ground'. Which is to say, a way to completely ignore reality because it displeases you, then scream your head off whenever someone disagrees or points out flaws in your solution.

Finding a true middle ground to allowing and disallowing jumps would be something more along the lines of limiting jumps to field areas, or in context sensitive points, and keeping the mechanical use to instances or specific fights. This way you don't have someone skipping around town or hopping on/over food stands in the middle of U'ldah markets.

Insulting the system because you don't like platformer mechanics (which are already in the game to some extent.) and deciding you want to be able to turn it off because you don't even want to make use of it is not offering a middle ground. It's saying you want the feature as limited as possible so you can shut it out of your viewing completely, when it has the oppertunity to be done right and add more depth to the game, regardless of your personal opinion on cross-genre mechanics.

Finding middle ground is designed to address the problem form more than one or two perspectives, its finding the median for as many concerns as possible. And that includes considering that some people might have alternative median solutions.

I still find this ridiculous that you have such heated language over something as simple as being able to leap into the air. This is not a large issue.

Now if you would please calm down, your arguments and viewpoints might actually seem more respectable. Finding a middle ground is a conversation process, not a list of demands met without critique.

[Jennestia]

You do realize that moving out of the way, or out of range of an Area of Effect attack is also a mechanic based off platformers, right?

Technically only Jumping out of the way, or rolling out of the way, stuff like that is generally a mechanic based off of platformers because good platformers have boss encounters that requires utilization of all your movement mechanics, like Ys games, just simply running backwards to get out of AoE range or stepping to the sides of a vertical/conal attack isn't platforming, most RPGs were generally in a 2D plane -- Eternal Sonata for example is far from a platformer but you can avoid quite a bit of attacks in that game just by positioning yourself properly.

it would make it clear that the invisible walls are, in fact, invisible walls instead of just bad model pathing

This is already very clear without a Jump mechanic. The thing is though, since Yoshida already mentioned the word "emote" when he first brought up Jumping, this is why I don't think it would be something that could be filtered, since it would be an emote. So unless the map redesigns is radically changing everything about the game, there will still be barriers and the like in places. He also brought up there's the possibility of in-game configuration, which means there's a good chance like FFXI you'll be able to toggle a fair bit of animations and clipping panes, which if you have played XI before you would remember how if a player is just out of a certain distance from you you don't see what they're doing animation wise.

So in the end it is a wait and see situation.

[Dragon]

tl;dr

Look in the mirror, you're being pompous, not me. I've accepted that people want jumping in the game, why you can't accept I want to be able to turn it off and be able to remove people completely from my screen as a blacklist function should is beyond me.

For the record, I don't agree with range-based AoEs coming from the enemy mob. If anything, everyone in a party should be affected by an AoE regardless of range or positioning. I don't like platformers, and I'm not here to play some silly platforming game.

(Oh and if you didn't noticed, we're still using turn-based concepts... I mean, you do realize you can't just use an ability or attack whenever you want since everything is under cooldown? Even in an action/adventure game, you'll find turn-based concepts. The only mainstream genre you really won't find turn-based concepts are mindless shooters.)

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

Look in the mirror, you're being pompous, not me. I've accepted that people want jumping in the game, why you can't accept I want to be able to turn it off and be able to remove people completely from my screen as a blacklist function should is beyond me.

Because you're blocking someone over a game mechanic. They wouldn't want you to have the ability to shut people out over something so trivial.

Furthermore, it is their game in the end. You might be paying for it, but you're paying for what they create. If you don't like this then it is your right to stop service and not pay anymore. There is an understanding to create towards what the community wants, but this is only for inspiration. Developers don't exactly get into the business to create exactly what you dictate. These is no creativity in this; no outlet. So, having this creation blocked is not something that's going to be on the table. Also, them giving you the option to block it and all others using it is counter productive. They should be creating things in such a way where people won't want to block it. That is, when it's released. Wanting to block it prematurely is just ignorance.

[Hyrist]

Technically only Jumping out of the way, or rolling out of the way, stuff like that is generally a mechanic based off of platformers because good platformers have boss encounters that requires utilization of all your movement mechanics, like Ys games, just simply running backwards to get out of AoE range or stepping to the sides of a vertical/conal attack isn't platforming, most RPGs were generally in a 2D plane -- Eternal Sonata for example is far from a platformer but you can avoid quite a bit of attacks in that game just by positioning yourself properly.

Yet Eternal Sonata employs action timing, prompts from other action games.

Mario RPG does the same thing with it's reaction button.

FFVI, Blit's system's input, very much like fighting games.

Breath of Fire III, same thing with several moves.

FFVIII, Gunblade mechanics in general.

The list goes on.

And let's not get into platformers with RPG elements, or RPGs that took so much from platformers that they ended up creating an entire sub-genera (Action RPGs)

MMO's are headed in that direction too, to their credit, in my opinion.

As far as only 'rolling and jumping' out of the way being the only dodge mechanic in plat formers, I'd have to disagree. Dodging has been a mechanic in several genres before jump and roll existed, jumping added another depth to the original side scrollers as well as 2D adventure games as they developed. But the emphasis on dodging and countering attacks afterwards has been a staple for many genres, except RPGs in its infancy.

It really depends on your opinion of whether or not you give the predecessors to platform games credit for what platformers came from and if you include dodging without jumping part of its mechanics.

But even FFXI had a touch of it in there, the best example of course being Zantazuken and being able to dodge it by kneeling or resting.

This is already very clear without a Jump mechanic. The thing is though, since Yoshida already mentioned the word "emote" when he first brought up Jumping, this is why I don't think it would be something that could be filtered, since it would be an emote. So unless the map redesigns is radically changing everything about the game, there will still be barriers and the like in places.

Referring to invisible walls, they're inevitable if you want to keep a certain quality of experience in your game. But there are a lot of pathing issues as well. One-way drops that really shouldn't be, impassible ankle-high ledges that you could trip over and be on the other side of. These sorts of things can and should be regarded with a jump function that, if you're pretending jump doesn't exist, would be really awkward and clunky.

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm of the opinion that colision detection in general in the game right now is bad. It makes no sense to me why characters can't be knocked down, and that their only way to fall in battle is to essentially tire out and collapse. I think the animation department can do a bit more for immersion in that regard.

Then again, I might have bene spoiled a bit by Aion. Still, it doesn't make sense to me why Ifrit's 2hr or some of his blast attacks don't flatly lay-out players, if by nothing else as a stun effect with an understandable animation behind it.

It'd make abilities like "Leg Sweep" more believable too.

He also brought up there's the possibility of in-game configuration, which means there's a good chance like FFXI you'll be able to toggle a fair bit of animations and clipping panes, which if you have played XI before you would remember how if a player is just out of a certain distance from you you don't see what they're doing animation wise.

True, but this is in no way an emote filter. Again, like in FFXI, there is no emote filter for motions. If someone on your blacklist does a /hurray motion, you still see the /hurray motion. Heck, you still even hear the sounds.

So in the end it is a wait and see situation.

Agreed. Though some people can stem to listen to reason more.

[Zoltan]

It is a fact. Why is it necessary or needed in Final Fantasy XIV?

The is no conflict of interest or hypocricy.

If one person challenges another peson's ability to comprehend a statement, that is a valid concern. It is not an insult or an attack.

Certainly people are free to jump and hop all they want in other MMOs.

Can't people get their jumping fix in other MMOs if that's what they want to do?

Simply because they have stated that they're adding it does not mean that it will be unrestricted.

Maybe you will be allowed to jump once every week at full moon when King Behemoth spawns.

[Jynx]

Adjusting the jump is going to be a massive pain mainly due to Lala needing to be able to jump as high as other races without looking strange.

Also the other races have to have a respectable jump as well, making it even harder to balance the hight of the jump. Chances are regardless of how much balancing they do Lalafells will look like circus midgets when they jump or taller races will look like they are just "High stepping" over fences.