"Doma" should not be "Pan-Asia"

[Fatestorm]

Hey folks, just a thought about lore!

Basically, I am hoping and asking that S-E doesn’t make Doma into the “pan-Asian” culture of FFXIV, a big pot to dump everything “Asian” from kotatsu tables to shinobi to giant pandas to qipaos. I think it’s a bit disrespectful to the actual real-life cultures they’re taken from; and I think it would be a failure of imagination not to find different ways to fit those cultures into Hydaelyn, and instead just dump them into Doma-pan-Asian-land.

This is more an argument about sensibility rather than clear and distinct categories, so there’s of course some wiggle room here. It’s not that borrowing is bad. Garlemald clearly takes cues from Rome; Sharlayan from Greece. Nor is it that combining cultures is bad. Ala Mhigo, as an example, seems to me to combine aspects of (1) the Byzantine Empire (the name ‘Theodoric’, for example, and the role that theology plays in the government) with (2) the Germanic tribes that entered the Roman world so influentially in the fourth and fifth centuries, and which account for so much of the Germanic tribalism that we see in the Highlanders, and (3) bits of China, like the way that the Monk job abilities and artifact armor seem to use Chinese terms and decorative motifs; the Fist of Rhalgr seems so very Shaolin to me. Ala Mhigo is even very high up in the mountains—to the point that Highlanders have developed physiologically in response to the high altitudes—and that seems very Himalayas/southwestern China to me. So again, if my instincts are reading this rightly, Ala Mhigo is a sort of blend of Byzantine-Germanic-Chinese. It’s not that blending cultures is bad.

It’s that… with as much thought as they’ve put into lore like that thus far, doesn’t it do us a disservice to lump all the “Asian” things—whether it’s delicious Japanese sushi or a fashionable Mandarin qipao—into the “Asian culture”? They already have taken “Asian” things like yukata and Ala Mhigo’s monk artifact armor and spread them to other cultures. Why lump everything “Asian” into Doma now? Just recently, they put in a panda minion, and said it came from Doma! I thought they had established that Doma was being patterned on Japan, no…? So why are Chinese pandas now “Doman”?



If we get this qipao as a distribution—which was originally a Chinese-only item—I think it would be a bit insulting to the Chinese culture it was meant to celebrate to squash it into the game’s “Japanese culture” Doma. They already have a culture which takes cues from China—Ala Mhigo. Why not attend to your own lore?

[Belhi]

Have they given any information on the origin of the Chinese only or Korean only Glamours? It wasn't something I thought to ask. Doma seems to be predominately Japanese themed, though technically Ninjitsu originates from an Island of the coast of Doma. I will be curious if Samurai is confirmed if it is Doman in origin.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

Mm, I agree, in that lumping all east-Asian cultural artefacts together under a single banner is an issue born of ignorance, but it's primarily a WESTERN issue, and one I'd hesitate to accuse an almost-entirely-Japanese dev team of suffering from.

On top of that, as you yourself say, combining cultures isn't necessarily a problem, especially when they're being combined into a fantasy culture anyways. At what point would you consider it a harmless blending of real-world influences into a singular fantasy culture, and at what point would it become pan-Asianism?

[Cilia]

Xaela are Mongolian analogues, but their females have the exact same emotes as the demure Raen (Japanese analogues).

Ahem.

It's not that they're lumping all Asian things into Doma, but that they're lumping all Asian things into Othard - the continent all Au Ra are implicitly from. Doma is just a nation on that continent, hence why they're Japanese (Japan is an island nation, but it is a part of Asia...). As such everything on Othard is likely some kind of Asian analogue - a qipao is a small matter compared to the above-mentioned Xaela women having the same emotes as the Raen. Just say anything that doesn't have clear Japanese influence is from Othard and it's fine.

As for Highlanders and Ala Mhigo, aside from the MNK having some cues from Shaolin monks there's very little Chinese influence I can see. They seem to be more based on the Germanic tribes before Europe was a well-defined set of nations, though to their credit Ala Mhigo was a kingdom.

[Xlantaa]

Well, what we know is Doma is japanese based. So, if we get finally to that land in a expasion, probably will be japanese-like. YOu can see te doman gear (old Law gear), which is Samurai inspired clearly.

About china, probably will be more Ala Mhigo than any other (they even have the Monks).

[Lunaxia]

I'm not sure you can accuse a country of ignorance or disrespect when it involves their own culture...

They've done nothing of the sort yet, anyway. Everything in-game so far with the "orient" label attached has been Japanese in origin. The panda cub is a mechanical one brought from Doma, there is nothing that implies the creatures themselves are native to Doma. We weren't even supposed to have these outfits/ minions in game anyway before the player base whined about how badly done to they were.

[Dalvy]

Well considering Doma in ff6 is based off of their own culture ....

[DamianFatale]

You're complaining about how asians are represented to asians... good luck.

[AnimaAnimus]

You're complaining about how asians are represented to asians... good luck.

You are dumping an entire race together with cultures that vary widely. Not to mention there is an extreme amount of racism between the various Asian cultures so calling it out is still legit. Lumping all people of one ethnic type, who don't even see themselves as one ethnic type and if you pay attention at all there are vast differences outside of culture anyway, together into one, however, is quite racist.

[alimdia]

Good thing that racism doesn't seem to exist in the game lore between Othard nations, as far as we know.

This is a non-issue.