Game needs to be more newcomer friendly, but NOT with level-boosts

[Belhi]

Doing extra fetch quests and walking longer will not teach players to stay out of the fire or optimize their skills.

This happens in every MMORPG with a level cap increase or tiers of content. Players who put in 100 hours to get to level 50 think that every new player should do the same, or their recreational gaming "sacrifice" is devalued. But new players will balk at a game that requires the full time to hit cap before even trying new expansion content, so developers do trim the time required. It's inevitable that the 1-50 leveling/story will be eased, so let's discuss how.

I think they can streamline them somewhat. I mean a hell of a lot of the quests are fetch quests because their quest mechanic system has so far been pretty limited in what options they have. I think its collect something, kill something, or carry something from one spot to another. They are looking to improve the system for 4.0 and got a lot better at using what they had in 3.0 but a lot of the old 2.0 stuff is hard to go back and just remove. Quite a few of those quests work as breadcrumb or introduction quests. I think some can be removed or turned into side quests but I think changing some of them might impact the narrative making sense.

In the short term I think the most likely options, taking into account the potential time it would take to develop and implement the change and the time Yoshi's team has to do something like that, is to make the all jobs available at 30 and make story skippable so you can jump forward through storyline you have out level. That way people can play the jobs they want as soon as they hit the right level and people who aren't interested in trawling through the story can skip it. A more major overhaul of the story content is something I think would need to be worked on over a longer time frame than what they have at the moment.

[bass9020]

Doing extra fetch quests and walking longer will not teach players to stay out of the fire or optimize their skills.

This happens in every MMORPG with a level cap increase or tiers of content. Players who put in 100 hours to get to level 50 think that every new player should do the same, or their recreational gaming "sacrifice" is devalued. But new players will balk at a game that requires the full time to hit cap before even trying new expansion content, so developers do trim the time required. It's inevitable that the 1-50 leveling/story will be eased, so let's discuss how.

This isn't every other MMO... if they want to do things differently why is that such a bad thing? The game already has so many ways for a new person to get in and do things musher quicker than anyone who started in 2.0. If there is a way to reshuffle fetch quests and keep the MSQs intact to tell the story that has been set then they should do it. Cutting things out completely and handing fully leveled characters over to people shouldn't be the way.

[HappyHubris]

This isn't every other MMO... if they want to do things differently why is that such a bad thing? The game already has so many ways for a new person to get in and do things musher quicker than anyone who started in 2.0. If there is a way to reshuffle fetch quests and keep the MSQs intact to tell the story that has been set then they should do it. Cutting things out completely and handing fully leveled characters over to people shouldn't be the way.

Why must the 1-50 leveling process take as much time in 4.0 as 3.0 besides "I had to so you should, too"? New players are the lifeblood of MMOs, and reducing the slog as the game ages is only positive. No one is advocating for instant level cap or cutting the story off at the knees, but trimming the MSQ shouldn't be hard.

[bass9020]

Why must the 1-50 leveling process take as much time in 4.0 as 3.0 besides "I had to so you should, too"? New players are the lifeblood of MMOs, and reducing the slog as the game ages is only positive. No one is advocating for instant level cap or cutting the story off at the knees, but trimming the MSQ shouldn't be hard.

People have you not been in the other threads about the recent interview with yoshi about the level potion/skip story? And I said reducing the MSQs and switching them to siqequests chains would be a better option but if its not done correctly then they shouldn't do it at all and find some other way but keeping the story intact. Im quite frankly tired of everyone acting like new players are the saviors of this game. This is a p2p game and clearly is doing perfectly fine. Do I want to see new players join? Absolutely! I love seeing new sprouts pop up in the towns and asking questions and helping out when I can. But I will not stand for people getting instant gratification because a game is in an expansion and they are new. (thats the whole point of being a new player.....)

[Terin]

Look, sit back and really think: what is the point of new Classes? I mean, really; the game works perfectly with what we've got, right?

The point is to appeal to different types of players. I don't like the squeaky-clean "knight in shining armor". I do, however, love Black Knight styled characters. Thus, the Dark Knight is incredibly appealing to me. Consider that player who loves the Machinist, using a gun and tinkering with robotics. Sure, a Black Mage can also fill the role of Ranged DPS, as could an Archer, but it doesn't cater to the FANTASY that player wants. You're essentially telling him to play a character he doesn't like, on the chance that 60+ hours in, he can change to one he MIGHT like.

It's not about "putting in the effort" or having anything handed to you. It's about creating a more enjoyable experience, that doesn't feel SO overwhelming that a new player feels like they're too far behind to even bother starting.

[bass9020]

Look, sit back and really think: what is the point of new Classes? I mean, really; the game works perfectly with what we've got, right?

The point is to appeal to different types of players. I don't like the squeaky-clean "knight in shining armor". I do, however, love Black Knight styled characters. Thus, the Dark Knight is incredibly appealing to me. Consider that player who loves the Machinist, using a gun and tinkering with robotics. Sure, a Black Mage can also fill the role of Ranged DPS, as could an Archer, but it doesn't cater to the FANTASY that player wants. You're essentially telling him to play a character he doesn't like, on the chance that 60+ hours in, he can change to one he MIGHT like.

It's not about "putting in the effort" or having anything handed to you. It's about creating a more enjoyable experience, that doesn't feel SO overwhelming that a new player feels like they're too far behind to even bother starting.

Its a story and lore driven game and classes/jobs are no different, if they don't fit the setting they aren't added right away. We are already given a 30 level jump when getting one of the new extra jobs and I'm sure all the new jobs added will be no different.

Getting ONE job to 50 is no effort and people who say it is should really reevaluate how they level up. And they already said that locking the new jobs behind the MSQs and expansion was not ideal, so its possible the new ones will be available from the start of the expansion. I wouldn't get hopes up if you aren't lvl 50 unless they start them at lvl 1 but then people will complain because thats 60 (maybe 70) levels they have to level up! But who knows.

[HyoMinPark]

Consider that player who loves the Machinist, using a gun and tinkering with robotics. Sure, a Black Mage can also fill the role of Ranged DPS, as could an Archer, but it doesn't cater to the FANTASY that player wants. You're essentially telling him to play a character he doesn't like, on the chance that 60+ hours in, he can change to one he MIGHT.

If SE decided to make the 3.0 jobs available without requiring an individual to complete ARR first, they would have to change the storyline for DRK, since it makes references to the events during the 2.x patches. While I would love to access the job earlier (since I made an alt for the sole purpose of leveling DRK again), I also do not want the storyline to change, since it is my favorite job storyline in this game. I know not everyone cares for the lore, but that storyline was amazing. I'd hate to see it changed.

[Terin]

Yeah, true, though there are ways they could leave those quests intact, while still having access to.their play style.

The best option is to simply have new Class counterparts prior to Heavensward. Like I said, something like Squire for Dark Knight. Maybe restructure the story a bit, introducing you to Fray in Coerthas instead of Ishgard, but keeping the story itself the same (merely changing the location a bit). Same for the other new Jobs, with Musketeer (precursor to Machinist) based out of Limsa, but maybe start leaning how to tinker around lvl 30 in Ul'dah, maybe connecting with the Goldsmiths who already use robotic engineering.

[Melorie]

I'm all in for going back to the ARR MSQ and cutting the filler. It'll be a hard work, of course, but way better than making jump potions or allowing dungeons open with the level cap instead of quest (I mean, there is a lore reason for every dungeon).

[Terin]

Agreed, NONE of us want a level-boost. However, FFXI made a lot of mistakes in regards to newcomers, and I think it's important to learn lessons from that, and other MMO's (and which solutions didn't work, such as WoW).

I definitely agree, that nobody NEEDS to be max level. Except, with the current New Jobs, they actually do, if they want to actually experience the new jobs. My intention isn't to try and zoom players to the end game super quickly, but to make sure that they can experience whatever "fantasy" they bought into, sooner rather than later.

As far as cutting out the "filler" content (or at least, making it optional), that's just cleaning up some hurdles that I don't think really add anything of substance. Just my opinion on that.