DPS Meter Usage?

[Niwashi]

There's no such thing as guilt by association in the ToS. Whether your friends and FC mates are breaking the rules or not is on them, not you. I really don't see where you're getting this idea that you're indirectly a cheater just by being around them. But if you don't like to associate with people who will break the rules of a game you're playing, then you can just leave and join another FC instead.

I do agree about the part that SE should do a better job of enforcing their rules. (Not just this one, but they don't enforce their rules against RMT spam or harassment very well either. They made and then immediately dropped rules about the Kick function because keeping rules for it would have required them to enforce them, and they don't like enforcing anything. And they took a ridiculously long time before even clarifying what their rule was in relation to housing plot sales.) But whether they enforce their rules well or not, you can play by the rules and befriend other people who do so, and that would seem to fix the part you're complaining about.

[zoqor]

There's no such thing as guilt by association in the ToS. Whether your friends and FC mates are breaking the rules or not is on them, not you. I really don't see where you're getting this idea that you're indirectly a cheater just by being around them.

On this, I think you are right. I was thinking well what if I started a new character on a different server, etc. (which I really, really do not want to do). What if say, that character was at the end of a successful dungeon and some guy started posting DPS results. Am I then guilty by association? I mean, I left the FC as soon as I learned about this and did not partake directly. That could be the same scenario. I think, plain and simple, peoples' use of things like this are going to affect others positvely and negatively just by virtue that we're all in the same game. But I don't think I'm guilty... and I'm going to stand by that and keep pushing on.

[Validus_Rackham]

OK, first of all you should go look up "letter of the law vs spirit of the law". A ToS has to be written in such a way that, if needed, it can hold up in a court of law. Hence the wording on the usage of parsers and the black-and-white nature of its use. This would be the letter of the law. The spirit of the law is intended to stop people from using a parser as a means to accuse someone of playing poorly or some other such abusive context.

Regarding your fear of cheating by association, there is no way that you could be at fault so no reason to worry about anything happening to you. To keep with the speeding analogy, if you are riding with someone in a car and they are speeding does that mean that you should get a speeding ticket too? You were gaining the benefit of their speeding by getting to your destination faster so by your reasoning you should be at fault as well. Of course, this is not the case. Same line of reasoning applies to your dilemma.

[EveK]

Indeed. No actionable terms of service violations by association. But if you know someone's bad, you probably don't want to hang out with them anyway.

Once you have another computer program running that's analyzing data from the game client, do you suddenly develop a strong moral imperative and ensure it's only used in a completely fair way? Unlikely. In fact, I recall a variety of scandal and banning back when people could not beat content on their own for a while and the first group that did, did so using what is very likely the exact program people have alluded to. It wasn't its ability to tell them "Hey, Fred, you did more damage than the bard that fight!" It was its ability to provide significantly more obvious cues for when they needed to perform certain combat tasks (Twintania's Twister, mostly, if memory serves). This is obviously something people can see on their own (especially if they have enough sense to focus target Twintania). And now Twintania tends to most often die without even getting a chance to cast Twister (Twisters?). But this declaration that it's not cheating becomes increasingly blurry even for stalwart supporters of DPS parsers when you start to replace fight's actual cues with more idiot-proof ones.

This is "New Player Help." Let's not try to encourage new players to cheat.

Oh, and regarding letter of the law ... the terms already say Square can just ban anyone for any reason. They have that very thoroughly legally covered. They don't need to be additionally vague or ominous. The text about third party software that analyzes game data seems genuinely intended to say that this is cheating, not that they want to have extra legal support in case someone is mean about it. And here's the quote for you (all caps theirs, not mine):

SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

[zoqor]

I just think this whole situation is absurd. Plain and simple... there are very popular job guides in the official SE forum here that openly discuss theorycrafting obtained through the use of a parser, and link to YouTube videos where a parser is clearly displayed. These posts have been out there for years.

So, as I noted before as an "experiment" I reported them. They are still there. SE needs to either say, no you can't use these and ban people that talk about them, or just say something like "you use these at your own risk and can be banned if harrasing people with them." But they need to say _something_. Because as things stand now, there is a 90% chance that if I join another FC they'll start talking about DPS parsing... and I'll once again be a "cheater by assocation." The whole "fight club, don't ask don't tell" mentality is ridiculous. I paid money for this game and will not be renewing my subscription. New players should not have to go through this crap.

[Rawrz]

I just think this whole situation is absurd. Plain and simple... there are very popular job guides in the official SE forum here that openly discuss theorycrafting obtained through the use of a parser, and link to YouTube videos where a parser is clearly displayed. These posts have been out there for years.

So, as I noted before as an "experiment" I reported them. They are still there. SE needs to either say, no you can't use these and ban people that talk about them, or just say something like "you use these at your own risk and can be banned if harrasing people with them." But they need to say _something_. Because as things stand now, there is a 90% chance that if I join another FC they'll start talking about DPS parsing... and I'll once again be a "cheater by assocation." The whole "fight club, don't ask don't tell" mentality is ridiculous. I paid money for this game and will not be renewing my subscription. New players should not have to go through this crap.

You're the first person I've ever seen get butt-hurt "by association." ._.

A large portion (possibly majority) of the community has accepted parsers so long as no harassment is involved. You're like the religious fanatic that is screaming at the crowd to stone a Woman who just wants a Divorce from her husband, who is also alright with the divorce.

[EveK]

As we've thoroughly covered, while using the cheat programs is against terms, talking about info derived from them is not. So if these posts are people admitting they use them, then they're actionable. If these posts just talk about data that someone somewhere may have obtained by cheating, they are not actionable.

Ironically, posts to the effect of "I quit" actually are actionable. They're deemed negative since you're clearly not trying to get any help any more but instead are just trying to make a fuss. So ... bye.

[zoqor]

As we've thoroughly covered, while using the cheat programs is against terms, talking about info derived from them is not. So if these posts are people admitting they use them, then they're actionable. If these posts just talk about data that someone somewhere may have obtained by cheating, they are not actionable.

Actually, those posts link to videos showing the authors explicitly using and discussing the parsers. I mean, click on the link. Parser. So, if SE does not remove those posts, parsers are de facto allowed regardless of the ToS and this is an utterly pointless conversation. BTW, if I ask a question in the forum and become frustrated because the company that I pay money to fails to respond, and consider quitting that's "actionable?" See the irony? They won't act on anything.

[Jeeed]

basically what everyone has already said itt, don't talk about it ingame or use the results to harass other players. Personally I'm paranoid so I don't use one, though.

[Teiren]

I agree it's wrong to use them as the game is designed around not needing or wanting them, and I think it just adds undue, unnecessary stress and obsession. Sometimes I worry that, when combined with other obsessive/hardcore views of the game mechanics, it may potentially greatly distort the feedback the devs receive and how they develop the game, so I have a generally pessimistic view of them. But I also understand people are people and their motivations to use them. I also understand they're not inherently bad and that they have positive uses, even though personally I think the new Stone, Sky, Sea feature replicates most of the positives.

As an individual human being, you have to make the decision about what to care about, not what some ToS says. But before that, you have to understand things are not utterly black and white more often than not. I'm not personally attacking you here; it's just life however uncomfortable. For example, I like to read some of the theorycrafting just because I'm interested in such numbers, but I know in the end it doesn't have a major effect on much of anything in the game. So it's okay if you decide you can't accept parsers and the like, but make sure it's because you feel it's wrong, not because some ToS says it's prohibited. I guess the moral here is: Get your priorities straight.

As we've thoroughly covered, while using the cheat programs is against terms, talking about info derived from them is not. So if these posts are people admitting they use them, then they're actionable. If these posts just talk about data that someone somewhere may have obtained by cheating, they are not actionable.

I really wish this was true, but by banning Dervy for doing exactly this, it proves this is also technically not allowed. It's completely ridiculous, but that has to do with the forum moderation more than anything with the game moderation and development.