DPS Meter Usage?

[zoqor]

A ToS has little meaning if its not enforced. Also, if you use an application that is against the ToS to improve your gameplay, then you are in fact cheating. Any other way of looking at it is semantics. Whether they should be allowed? I can't say, but if they are not allowed and you use them, you are a cheater. Anyway, it is what it is, thanks for the responses.

[EveK]

It is 100% against the rules. Square enforces it 100%. They do not, however, actively witch hunt for people violating the rules; as people have said, they must be reported by other players. Beyond that, they will not punish anyone without solid proof. As people have said, this most likely takes the form of someone admitting the usage via in-game chat. Videos, as a general policy, are not accepted as evidence to punish people. With varying degrees of ease, one could alter the image and/or impersonate the character in such a way as to frame someone. I frankly wouldn't put it past some trolls to take a broadcast of me playing from my Twitch channel and adding their own camera and parser feeds. As extremely unlikely as the situation seems in the grand scheme of things, the fundamental principle of never banning the innocent must prevail.

And for the record, it's obviously absurd to say everyone uses them. Of course that's false. You don't use them. I don't use them. A whole lot of people that really don't care enough to post in this thread don't use them. But the cheaters sleep better at night if they convince themselves it's common practice, hang out with like-minded folks to reinforce that notion, and then make the additional logical leap that common practice somehow magically makes something okay.

It's also worth a side note that PvP matches actually do give damage numbers on the scoreboard. Just like with everything else, the amount of damage one's hits add up to is ultimately of far less consequence than many other factors.

So ... if you will only accept a perfect world where every onze of wrongdoing is immediately met with ultimate justice by Game Masters ... this is not the world for you and I suspect there is not one. But you can rest assured that Square actually does enforce their policies as best they can.

[zoqor]

So let's see. As an experiment I just reported a few extremely popular threads in the DPS forums for teaching new players how to play their class that link to YouTube videos with parsers and also include data from the parsers in the forum itself. Thus we'll see if "Square enforces it 100%." My thoughts are they don't and won't. Those posts will be on these forums long after I am gone. They tell us we're cheating and then look the other way. And that's wrong; just plain wrong. They need to pick a side and stick with it.

I can almost ensure you that those posts will not be removed. It is 100% illegal, and 0% enforced making unwitting cheaters of us all; those that use the programs and those that are in guilds or parties that use the programs.

[Rawrz]

So let's see. As an experiment I just reported a few extremely popular threads in the DPS forums for teaching new players how to play their class that link to YouTube videos with parsers and also include data from the parsers in the forum itself. Thus we'll see if "Square enforces it 100%." My thoughts are they don't and won't. Those posts will be on these forums long after I am gone. They tell us we're cheating and then look the other way. And that's wrong; just plain wrong. They need to pick a side and stick with it.

I can almost ensure you that those posts will not be removed. It is 100% illegal, and 0% enforced making unwitting cheaters of us all; those that use the programs and those that are in guilds or parties that use the programs.

If you don't know your parse results how are you benefiting exactly? I think you're blowing this up. Laws are meant to create order and protect citizens. Unless someone harasses another with the results, which in itself is a violation, there is no reason to call foul. The act of parsing can, to some extent be done on paper. Using stone, sea, sky you can calculate a parse result, without using ACT. A majority of this forum populace wants a parser in some form, adopted into the game.

They do not want you to be able to data mine for other player locations in PvP or finding hunts before others. That's the sort of thing that makes them against data mining.

Those guides used parsers as evidence to show how to maximize your class, with video proof of what it can do for you. How nice of you to report them.

Also a ToS is a threat. In the end SE is the interpreter of their own "law."

[zoqor]

In regards to your defense on parsing, you're preaching to the choir here. But that's not really what this is about. Per SE... running a parsing application is 100% illegal and against the ToS. The very act of doing it is a violation. Whether the purpose is altruistic and meant to help new players, or done for personal improvement, there is reason to call foul simply because it is against the rules.

Per SE... it was nice that I reported those people for their helpful guides. I did the right thing. Unless told otherwise, those people that spent so much time working on theorycrafting to help new players, are actually cheaters. That's SE's point of view and that's what they tell new players through their ToS.

[Malicewolf]

They need to pick a side and stick with it.

I can almost ensure you that those posts will not be removed. It is 100% illegal, and 0% enforced making unwitting cheaters of us all; those that use the programs and those that are in guilds or parties that use the programs.

http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/virginia

I see you're location is VA. If you've done any of the following, please report yourself to the nearest police station


I think this one is my favorite though

Children are not to go trick-or-treating on Halloween.

[Malicewolf]

The thing about the gaming industry is that want to retain players and keep more coming. That is always their goal. They will ban and eliminate those whose will cause issues that will likely cause a decrease in the majority of the community. Obviously data mining is a problem. But I've done manual calculations on my characters to see exactly how my DPS is doing before. It took me about an hour to access myself, whereas the parser would of taken 0 extra time out of my day. The parser would of given me zero information that I couldn't of gotten myself with some effort though. However, using it for grief tactics causes a toxic environment which makes players want to leave. Hence, why they work to prevent it.

No game will be 100% overlords about their every rule on the ToS. It's actually very bad business to do so. Even work places don't do that. Would you fire a great employee for being 5 min late once? No. You give them a warning at worst. MAYBE. More than likely, you don't bother causing a good employee to become jaded towards the company he works for because he was 5 minutes late one day. Why? Because it would be bad business in which the company wouldn't retain employee's very well. Does parsing hurt players? No. Do players who use parsing hurt players? Yes.

I hope you don't take the 100% rule for everything in life. If you're a christian and believe in the bible, you're very likely sinning due to wearing a polyester shirt.

[zoqor]

I get it, believe me. But in this case, the opposite effect is happening. I'm a new player, I just subscribed for my very first month. I've just unlocked Heavensward content and am absolutely loving the game. It is wonderful. I don't care about parsing etc. But finding out that my guild uses parsing software means that individuals in that guild are cheaters... per SE's official stance. That means I'm in a guild of cheaters and and thus benefit indirectly from that as a guild consists of the contributions of the whole. So that makes me, indirectly a cheater. And for a new player, who's just started to play the game; plainly put that sucks. I just want to play the game and be happy. SE's ToS, enforced or not, is preventing that and just filling me with guilt.

[Malicewolf]

There is a difference between a cheater and someone who's not following every ToS guideline to a tee. Parsing gives no benefit to any player that could not be gotten by themselves without it aside from saving some time. It simply tells you numbers based on what YOU did. It manipulates nothing for you gameplay wise. That's kind of like saying a soccer player who listened to the ESPN commentators before the game about the other team is cheating... They really aren't.

If it bothers you that they are parsing, then go ahead and leave. You can disagree with their using it if you want. But to call it cheating... that's just not the right word. They are out of compliance maybe. But you can get any information that a parser gives by checking your battle logs carefully. The difference is, it'll take you hours to separate, calculate and evaluate all the data. But being able to do this quickly allows for player to player issues in which you can instantly call people out.

So if it's simply a guilt thing. Then find a group that doesn't parse. No one in my FC or my friends FC parses. That totals around 40 some people that I know personally who don't parse. Now, would I care if they did parse. Not at all. But none of us care that much to bother with it. Enjoy the game. If you're guilt filled about this that you can't handle it, then sorry to hear. But any game you go to will have grey areas like this.

[zoqor]

But to call it cheating... that's just not the right word. They are out of compliance maybe. But you can get any information that a parser gives by checking your battle logs carefully.

I don't want to drag this on. But at this point I firmly disagree. The ToS say it is illegal to run third party applications that interact with the engine. That's what a parser does. People use them to improve their performance in a game. So, they are using illegal software to gain a competitive edge. That's the very definition of cheating. This is not a gray area. This is black and white. It is a complete violation of the ToS to do something that benefits a character.

Because SE refuses to enforce this, many do it and that means new players like me, who don't give a crap about this stuff, get caught up in it. What SE needs to do is either say it is allowed or that it is not allowed, and enforce it. Plain and simple. For me, it's ruined the game. I've lost my FC, and have no real desire to keep playing. So, that tells me something is wrong with the way things are and SE should do something about that.