Lore Incentive Is Ruining Duty Roulette

[LineageRazor]

If your reaction to a bad pick-up party is to make things WORSE by deliberately sabotaging it, understand that you are part of the problem.

It's fine to speak up, explain to them what's bothering you, and ask them to change. There's no guarantee they'll listen (sometimes they CAN'T listen, if they don't speak your language), and that is their prerogative. You then have the choice of abandoning the run if you simply can't tolerate it, attempt to vote kick the individual on grounds of harassment, or just put up with it and continue to do your job.

The healer who lets a party member die to prove a point? The tank who lets a party member die to prove a point? The DPS who pulls extra mobs to prove a point? They make a bad situation worse - and more than that, more likely than not no point is actually getting through. The other party members don't know you're trying to play party police - they just think you're a bad player. And they are absolutely correct: someone who sabotages their own party IS a bad player.

[CrimsonThunder]

Blame relic.

[Jas710]

Death and wipes are a far better teaching tool when people in a team can't compromise. Let 'em all die as a wake-up call.

[Caelum_Dragguell]

As someone who both tanks and can heal I dislike the mentality of saying "just let them die" or "you pull it you tank it". People want to go fast because it is usually more fun to run this way. If the tank pulls too many enemies for you to heal thats one case, if they're chain pulling... and you're level 50, as a healer it's expected of you to keep up.
That being said if they're being rude that's not ok

Tl;Dr suck it up, and play your role, throwing a fit just slows you down and taking it slow teaches you little to nothing in this game.

[Namida-Hikari]

People want to go fast because it is usually more fun to run this way

Why is it so hard for many players to understand that going fast and big chain pulls IS NOT fun for everyone...?

[Greedalox]

Why is it so hard for many players to understand that going fast and big chain pulls IS NOT fun for everyone...?

Neither is going slow and playing phone games with one hand and and mouse targetting your skills here and there in a dungeon while a regen holds you up fun for everyone. Alas it's up to the person who's actually doing the pulling, playing a tank lets you set the pace for your group. You can't always have your cake and eat it too in group content.

[Welsper59]

Neither is going slow and playing phone games with one hand and and mouse targetting your skills here and there in a dungeon while a regen holds you up fun for everyone. Alas it's up to the person who's actually doing the pulling, playing a tank lets you set the pace for your group. You can't always have your cake and eat it too in group content.

Essentially, tank = leader. Part of the duty of being a leader is knowing your group. If the leader can't understand the workflow of the groups efficiency early enough, that player is a failure and should NOT be in that position to determine what happens. Going at the speed that is acceptable for that group is what needs to be done. Compromises must be met if all players are not of equal skill, since if you force something too difficult upon someone, disaster awaits and can significantly increase the very thing you wanted to avoid (more time playing in the dungeon/game). On the other end, forcing situations that do not promote increased difficulty does NOT increase the likelihood of disaster. Comparing the two really doesn't work when the problem is the increased challenge which, more often than not, is because the player is new or not equipped for it. The "leader" and fellow party members tend to fail hard in those situations though.

Mind you, putting said new/undergeared player in a situation that is possible for them to struggle through isn't a bad thing. The problem is that "possible" part and a number of people assume that to be an assurance with literally zero risk involved. In lv60 content, go ahead and assume it if you know you can carry the burden of the group for the majority of a worst case scenario (e.g. an i240 tank doing big pulls in older dungeons). If the other players don't say anything to contest that plan, then whatever. If someone does, and they still go ahead with it, the problem is that "leader" (the tank, in this case).

[Greedalox]

Essentially, tank = leader. Part of the duty of being a leader is knowing your group. If the leader can't understand the workflow of the groups efficiency early enough, that player is a failure and should NOT be in that position to determine what happens. Going at the speed that is acceptable for that group is what needs to be done. Compromises must be met if all players are not of equal skill, since if you force something too difficult upon someone, disaster awaits and can significantly increase the very thing you wanted to avoid (more time playing in the dungeon/game). On the other end, forcing situations that do not promote increased difficulty does NOT increase the likelihood of disaster. Comparing the two really doesn't work when the problem is the increased challenge which, more often than not, is because the player is new or not equipped for it. The "leader" and fellow party members tend to fail hard in those situations though.

Mind you, putting said new/undergeared player in a situation that is possible for them to struggle through isn't a bad thing. The problem is that "possible" part and a number of people assume that to be an assurance with literally zero risk involved. In lv60 content, go ahead and assume it if you know you can carry the burden of the group for the majority of a worst case scenario (e.g. an i240 tank doing big pulls in older dungeons). If the other players don't say anything to contest that plan, then whatever. If someone does, and they still go ahead with it, the problem is that "leader" (the tank, in this case).

I was responding to someone saying big pulls aren't fun, not a tank pulling big groups, dying, pulling another big group and dying again. If the healer was able to keep the tank up through the pulls, it's not really a skill thing anymore and it suddenly becomes a healer not enjoying having to cast multiple heals in a row. Big pulls are the only thing that add ANY semblance to challenge as a healer before raid content, so it just seems odd to me that in the meantime so many healers don't like to dps because "I picked healer" but also don't want to heal beyond regen.

[Welsper59]

I was responding to someone saying big pulls aren't fun, not a tank pulling big groups, dying, pulling another big group and dying again. If the healer was able to keep the tank up through the pulls, it's not really a skill thing anymore and it suddenly becomes a healer not enjoying having to cast multiple heals in a row. Big pulls are the only thing that add ANY semblance to challenge as a healer before raid content, so it just seems odd to me that in the meantime so many healers don't like to dps because "I picked healer" but also don't want to heal beyond regen.

Yes, and that also connects to my comment. There are players of all walks of life here, so it's best to kind of go in with the minimal expectation. The increased stress generally isn't what people actively want out of a video game and can very much reduce the enjoyment as a whole. For as popular as games like Demon's/Dark Souls might be, titles that promote frustration, they hardly encompass the masses as a whole. Some folks really do like to not have to "master" something to play them. This doesn't exactly translate all that well in MMORPGs, admittedly, since being adequate is usually enough lol. Still, the group dynamic is more important in the long run. If a healer is uncomfortable with huge pulls, maybe don't do as big of a pull as normal. Instead of the entire area, maybe 1/4 or 1/2 of it? That sort of thing if they're good to try. Compromise.

That healers not DPSing thing is another matter that games tend to identify a healer as. I mean, most RPGs don't exactly give healers as much damage output as XIV does. For as long as this game has been around, and for how long the players have made DPSing as healer a thing here, it's far from normal universally (for the genre/role outside of the game). Unless it's required and really does impact the success of a group, which it almost never does outside of hardest tier raiding, it's really not that big of a deal. They picked a healer, so as long as they're healing, they're doing their job. Better than the healers that refuse to heal (even themselves) and only DPS... and I know that they exist first-hand.

[Greedalox]

Yes, and that also connects to my comment. There are players of all walks of life here, so it's best to kind of go in with the minimal expectation. The increased stress generally isn't what people actively want out of a video game and can very much reduce the enjoyment as a whole. For as popular as games like Demon's/Dark Souls might be, titles that promote frustration, they hardly encompass the masses as a whole. Some folks really do like to not have to "master" something to play them. This doesn't exactly translate all that well in MMORPGs, admittedly, since being adequate is usually enough lol. Still, the group dynamic is more important in the long run. If a healer is uncomfortable with huge pulls, maybe don't do as big of a pull as normal. Instead of the entire area, maybe 1/4 or 1/2 of it? That sort of thing if they're good to try. Compromise.

That healers not DPSing thing is another matter that games tend to identify a healer as. I mean, most RPGs don't exactly give healers as much damage output as XIV does. For as long as this game has been around, and for how long the players have made DPSing as healer a thing here, it's far from normal universally (for the genre/role outside of the game). Unless it's required and really does impact the success of a group, which it almost never does outside of hardest tier raiding, it's really not that big of a deal. They picked a healer, so as long as they're healing, they're doing their job. Better than the healers that refuse to heal (even themselves) and only DPS... and I know that they exist first-hand.

I feel like having the minimum expectation out of the player base is why this games in a bit of a tizzy with midcore content... Dungeons aren't really supposed to be relaxing, why would they be? I personally mean this in the most respectful way possible, but you're pandering to the declining skill of the player base which further dichotomizes bad players from everyone else, that being a well noted issue among of FF14.

They simply don't get better because they don't have to. Yes, sure maybe do a test pull to see that they can handle a couple packs, but if it's too stressful of a situation, then perhaps a DPS roll would be more suited to their state of mind. I don't get why you'd want to go into a monster filled dungeon without the elevated stress. Long story short is that the only people who can make the lowest denominator any better is the rest of the playerbase, because SE has pretty much gone this long making the game doable with a regen.

This is by no means a statement to chew out terrible players, merely to give them a firm helping hand instead of a blanket and bottle. People are capable of getting better, they're not babies ;_;

It frustrates me that a lot of modern gaming (MMO's in particular) has become about just getting it done, instead of failing and getting better.