Lore Incentive Is Ruining Duty Roulette

[Greedalox]

Yes, and that also connects to my comment. There are players of all walks of life here, so it's best to kind of go in with the minimal expectation. The increased stress generally isn't what people actively want out of a video game and can very much reduce the enjoyment as a whole. For as popular as games like Demon's/Dark Souls might be, titles that promote frustration, they hardly encompass the masses as a whole. Some folks really do like to not have to "master" something to play them. This doesn't exactly translate all that well in MMORPGs, admittedly, since being adequate is usually enough lol. Still, the group dynamic is more important in the long run. If a healer is uncomfortable with huge pulls, maybe don't do as big of a pull as normal. Instead of the entire area, maybe 1/4 or 1/2 of it? That sort of thing if they're good to try. Compromise.

That healers not DPSing thing is another matter that games tend to identify a healer as. I mean, most RPGs don't exactly give healers as much damage output as XIV does. For as long as this game has been around, and for how long the players have made DPSing as healer a thing here, it's far from normal universally (for the genre/role outside of the game). Unless it's required and really does impact the success of a group, which it almost never does outside of hardest tier raiding, it's really not that big of a deal. They picked a healer, so as long as they're healing, they're doing their job. Better than the healers that refuse to heal (even themselves) and only DPS... and I know that they exist first-hand.

I feel like having the minimum expectation out of the player base is why this games in a bit of a tizzy with midcore content... Dungeons aren't really supposed to be relaxing, why would they be? I personally mean this in the most respectful way possible, but you're pandering to the declining skill of the player base which further dichotomizes bad players from everyone else, that being a well noted issue among of FF14.

They simply don't get better because they don't have to. Yes, sure maybe do a test pull to see that they can handle a couple packs, but if it's too stressful of a situation, then perhaps a DPS roll would be more suited to their state of mind. I don't get why you'd want to go into a monster filled dungeon without the elevated stress. Long story short is that the only people who can make the lowest denominator any better is the rest of the playerbase, because SE has pretty much gone this long making the game doable with a regen.

This is by no means a statement to chew out terrible players, merely to give them a firm helping hand instead of a blanket and bottle. People are capable of getting better, they're not babies ;_;

It frustrates me that a lot of modern gaming (MMO's in particular) has become about just getting it done, instead of failing and getting better.

[Welsper59]

I feel like having the minimum expectation out of the player base is why this games in a bit of a tizzy with midcore content... Dungeons aren't really supposed to be relaxing, why would they be? I personally mean this in the most respectful way possible, but you're pandering to the declining skill of the player base which further dichotomizes bad players from everyone else, that being a well noted issue among of FF14.

They simply don't get better because they don't have to. Yes, sure maybe do a test pull to see that they can handle a couple packs, but if it's too stressful of a situation, then perhaps a DPS roll would be more suited to their state of mind. I don't get why you'd want to go into a monster filled dungeon without the elevated stress. Long story short is that the only people who can make the lowest denominator any better is the rest of the playerbase, because SE has pretty much gone this long making the game doable with a regen.

This is by no means a statement to chew out terrible players, merely to give them a firm helping hand instead of a blanket and bottle. People are capable of getting better, they're not babies ;_;

It frustrates me that a lot of modern gaming (MMO's in particular) has become about just getting it done, instead of failing and getting better.

I agree. I absolutely agree that part of the reason that midcore is so unusually placed/non-existent here is because of that minimum expectation. You (and many others) are overlooking (or just refusing to accept) the fact that it's exactly how it is here. Regardless of what you or I might say about wanting a higher degree of caliber of player/perspective to be the expectation, the fact is that the game does not require it. With where we are now, you are literally forcing your unnecessary expectations upon the players that the game caters to in that content. They are not objectively wrong here, assuming it does not actually prevent success, you are. The way the game is designed is proof of that.

The only way to remove terrible, or realistically to dramatically reduce the odds of it, is to increase difficulty substantially on almost everything. There needs to be unforgiving mechanics introduced, designed to weed out the bad habits/players. A single mistake or bad rotation play = wipe, sort of thing. The only reason why I mention such difficulty is because anything less allows for bad habits to exist. People being carried is a very big possibility the more forgiving something is. If people want to experience the game, they need to become better. That's the form of motivation that makes good players. On the other hand, it's also not much of a motivation for the bad/lazy players to continue playing, which to be honest, really will be a significant loss with such difficulty and dedication requirements. There's no real in-between here on the matter of player perspective these days.

They can absolutely introduce midcore tier type of content... and they kind of have already. Extreme fights and such really aren't that much of a faceroll for the average player to clear for the first time. Dungeons here, however, are designed for a group to take part and realistically accomplish with low or minimal skill. That's just how it is here. Both good and bad players are allowed to get to the point they need to be to do group content. Outside of lynch mobbing and extreme harassment, you're not going to remove or motivate bad players from either quitting or getting better. A select few may listen, but the majority will simply play the way they want.

You're right in that we're not babies. We are capable of getting better, should we choose to. That choice however is something you cannot force upon someone. The only ones who can, without harassment, are the devs. If the devs choose not to, then who's really in the wrong here?

Edit: forgot to add this in, but regarding the elevated stress part, it's because that's being unnecessarily forced upon them by another player. One that, in the case of the OP, is just a d-bag that could not give less of a crap about what the OP said. That player will force his/her expectations upon the OP to the point that it causes not just a slowdown from said d-bags expected time spent, but also adds far more frustration to everyone involved (possible wipes). That is the primary difference. The OP's way of doing things may slow down the expected norm, but it doesn't truly affect it negatively. Said tank however, absolutely affects it negatively. Now, if the game was designed to do that as a requirement/necessity, then yeah, OP gotta just git gud.