Lore Incentive Is Ruining Duty Roulette

[Namida-Hikari]

People want to go fast because it is usually more fun to run this way

Why is it so hard for many players to understand that going fast and big chain pulls IS NOT fun for everyone...?

[Greedalox]

Why is it so hard for many players to understand that going fast and big chain pulls IS NOT fun for everyone...?

Neither is going slow and playing phone games with one hand and and mouse targetting your skills here and there in a dungeon while a regen holds you up fun for everyone. Alas it's up to the person who's actually doing the pulling, playing a tank lets you set the pace for your group. You can't always have your cake and eat it too in group content.

[Welsper59]

Neither is going slow and playing phone games with one hand and and mouse targetting your skills here and there in a dungeon while a regen holds you up fun for everyone. Alas it's up to the person who's actually doing the pulling, playing a tank lets you set the pace for your group. You can't always have your cake and eat it too in group content.

Essentially, tank = leader. Part of the duty of being a leader is knowing your group. If the leader can't understand the workflow of the groups efficiency early enough, that player is a failure and should NOT be in that position to determine what happens. Going at the speed that is acceptable for that group is what needs to be done. Compromises must be met if all players are not of equal skill, since if you force something too difficult upon someone, disaster awaits and can significantly increase the very thing you wanted to avoid (more time playing in the dungeon/game). On the other end, forcing situations that do not promote increased difficulty does NOT increase the likelihood of disaster. Comparing the two really doesn't work when the problem is the increased challenge which, more often than not, is because the player is new or not equipped for it. The "leader" and fellow party members tend to fail hard in those situations though.

Mind you, putting said new/undergeared player in a situation that is possible for them to struggle through isn't a bad thing. The problem is that "possible" part and a number of people assume that to be an assurance with literally zero risk involved. In lv60 content, go ahead and assume it if you know you can carry the burden of the group for the majority of a worst case scenario (e.g. an i240 tank doing big pulls in older dungeons). If the other players don't say anything to contest that plan, then whatever. If someone does, and they still go ahead with it, the problem is that "leader" (the tank, in this case).

[Greedalox]

Essentially, tank = leader. Part of the duty of being a leader is knowing your group. If the leader can't understand the workflow of the groups efficiency early enough, that player is a failure and should NOT be in that position to determine what happens. Going at the speed that is acceptable for that group is what needs to be done. Compromises must be met if all players are not of equal skill, since if you force something too difficult upon someone, disaster awaits and can significantly increase the very thing you wanted to avoid (more time playing in the dungeon/game). On the other end, forcing situations that do not promote increased difficulty does NOT increase the likelihood of disaster. Comparing the two really doesn't work when the problem is the increased challenge which, more often than not, is because the player is new or not equipped for it. The "leader" and fellow party members tend to fail hard in those situations though.

Mind you, putting said new/undergeared player in a situation that is possible for them to struggle through isn't a bad thing. The problem is that "possible" part and a number of people assume that to be an assurance with literally zero risk involved. In lv60 content, go ahead and assume it if you know you can carry the burden of the group for the majority of a worst case scenario (e.g. an i240 tank doing big pulls in older dungeons). If the other players don't say anything to contest that plan, then whatever. If someone does, and they still go ahead with it, the problem is that "leader" (the tank, in this case).

I was responding to someone saying big pulls aren't fun, not a tank pulling big groups, dying, pulling another big group and dying again. If the healer was able to keep the tank up through the pulls, it's not really a skill thing anymore and it suddenly becomes a healer not enjoying having to cast multiple heals in a row. Big pulls are the only thing that add ANY semblance to challenge as a healer before raid content, so it just seems odd to me that in the meantime so many healers don't like to dps because "I picked healer" but also don't want to heal beyond regen.

[Mendalas]

Why is it so hard for many players to understand that going fast and big chain pulls IS NOT fun for everyone...?

To each their own. I personally find it incredibly boring not to chain pull. I've actually fell asleep in front of my computer because of tanks not chain pulling.

[Kaurie]

Why is it so hard for many players to understand that going fast and big chain pulls IS NOT fun for everyone...?

I think most people understand that different people find different things fun. Chain pulling is the norm because most people either want to go fast and get out of there fast, or find it fun. If most people found it less fun, then it wouldn't happen.

[FinaSel]

Wow this thread got really long really fast. Just read the first two pages, so I don't know if someone suggested this or not yet but, here is the advice I would give:
I would suggest finding a party with the Party Finder tool instead of the Dungeon Finder tool.
Why?
1.) You can clearly state in the description that you are still learning your healing roll and would like to take it slow.

2.) You will only get people who are willing to assist you. If someone is taking time out of their day to help someone just go through a dungeon to learn their role, you can bet they are a nice person and could become a great friend in the future.

3.) You'll only be paired with people from your server. A good way to build a network and make friends.

4.) You'll likely get other people who are new at their jobs too, who want to learn as well. You can take it slow together.

Just two days ago I was waiting for a node to pop and was looking at the Party Finder. I saw a person who wanted to run Sastasha for the first time as a tank.
They were still missing a healer. I have a level 60 WHM and no other healer jobs right now, so there was really zero material benefit for me to enter the dungeon.
But I did just to help out. Figured it's a good way to build a wider network of friends.

Of course the tank was slow because he was new. But no one in the party cared because everyone who joined already knew it would be that way. Everyone was very supportive and helped the tank a lot.

[MeiUshu]

@Welsper

If SE does what you suggest, we will high end so called super genius players come to the board and speak how hard it is to beat the content....in short no matter how hard or what not you make the fight there will always be those that complain

[Crysten]

If the OP even remotely decided to try pulling the "I'm just going to let you die" card in that situation you'd be vote dismissed by me faster than you can cast Aspected Benefic.

There are two issues in that situation: one, you're a dickhead or two, you're terrible.

Meeting any of the above two criteria means I don't have a problem in ruining your day.

[Altanas]

I learnt how to play my jobs better simply because of parties pushing everyone to their limits.

Going slowly in low level dungeons does not help new players