Hullbreaker HM is an example of how dungeons shouldn't be designed.

[LaylaTsarra]

I can see the speed running crowd, you know those who want to finish a dungeon in less that 10 minutes, really loving the alternate path method. Oh heaven forbid they might have to spend 15 minutes in a dungeon in stead of 10. Oddly enough my FC friends always seem to be happy when they get Hullbreaker as opposed to Sohr.

[Nestama]

The problem is the player base are going to dictate which is the fastest or most rewarding route and expect everyone to do it, which is gonna lead to the same drama we got now over how fast or slow tanks are going and whether healers should DPS to speed up the dungeon run. Remember, early dungeons had no gates or speed bumps, but because people exploited Brayflox Longstop Hard for the sake of going as fast as possible and making grinding go even faster, now we got slower dungeons. We are never going to get nice things because there's always the one correct choice whether you like it or not.

So how about a dungeon (or two) that has multiple pathways, BUT, you don't pick which way you go. What I mean is, in one run, you'll go left and in another one, go right. You (might) get to see more of the dungeon you're exploring, plus it'll make a two dungeon roulette be a little more than that.

[MagiusNecros]

Then the game will refuse to change. And those seeking change and diversity will go unheard. Forever. Why offer ingenuity when you can just bumrush content unchallenged for meager rewards? Spectacle and little substance. That glamour endgame though.

Need an example. Look at Hullbreaker Hard. Straightforward as you can get.

[LalafellDown]

I hear your very legit complaint. However if/when SE tries to make branching paths or do something different, the community doesn't receive it well. Why take the "side" path in Toto Rak when going forward at the fork still gets you there? Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale (technically) have area denial and one bad pull can get you in over your head quick. . . people hate and avoid them. Pharos Sirius - the original ver. - was tough with both dps and heal checks. . . people complained.

Nothing against you, of course, but we can't have nice things because we don't WANT nice things.

I said nothing about branching. I said every run is "Kill a few adds get to the boss over and over and over again." I would like anything, really, as long its not Kill a few adds get to the boss over and over and over again.

FF14 version 1.X got it right with open world dungeon Shposhae. When i first stepped in there I was happy that I could explore the place and I believe the chest/ keys dropped from random boss like adds which you could solo if you wanted. the dungeon also had notorious monsters like our A ranks. If memory serves right you would see other people there. I still have the keys from that place

exploration was thrown out of 2.0 along with the fun of exploring and replaced with boring dungeons with the same concept from lvl 15 to 60. Now all we have is zones and straight line dungeons.

Oh and what happened to the caves/underground caverns in Limsa or Ul'dah like 1.0 had where there would be a Grand Company Leve giver and you could go deep and explore

yes they fix a lot of the games problems with combat, but they took away fun features like huge open/connected world with tones of exploration. It wast about getting your loot and get out not for me at least

[Shurrikhan]

I don't know what the (unique) hate is about, honestly. The dungeon wasn't good, but it was no worse than most.

It hasn't answered any of our wants in terms of dungeon design; it changed nothing. But is that a reason for it to be singularly criticized? Or are we just looking at each subsequent release that has failed to innovate as a inherently greater failure?

I can understand either case—I'm just asking.

[MagiusNecros]

I think all the adds that go green when you "kill" them don't proc Sole Survivor. If someone else can confirm that would be great. If so...another flaw.

[Yasuhiro]

Don't see the issue with it, OP. It's just a homage to Final Fantasy XIII.

we've been getting those a lot for a while now...