3.4 speculation

[PArcher]

It's not the 'truth' but a subjective opinion. As I said, we shall simply have to agree to disagree.

So, you think the Nazis were justified with World War 2 and the Holocaust, right?

Its not the same thing exactly, but there are plenty of similarities.

[Pomelo]

So, you think the Nazis were justified with World War 2 and the Holocaust, right?

Its not the same thing exactly, but there are plenty of similarities.

Don't mention it then, that was so below the belt it is literally unreal lmao

[Alleluia]

So, you think the Nazis were justified with World War 2 and the Holocaust, right?

Its not the same thing exactly, but there are plenty of similarities.

Did you seriously just try to pull the "So, you support the Nazis." card? When someone was supporting a fictional empire's motives being portrayed as more justified for the purposes of interesting storytelling? You do know that wanting a more interesting story in no way even implies that someone is ok with genocide in real life, right?

Wait, hold on...implications were made that I'm a Nazi supporter and believe that the Earth is flat and I'm the rude one? I'm not quite sure how that works...

Where someone said that?
Put the comment where someone said that you are a Nazi supporter. Nobody said such a thing.

He means these, Frederick:

Or...maybe, just maybe...everyone is against you because you are so wrong we can't believe how you're able to keep going.

Its as if you believe the earth is flat.

So, you think the Nazis were justified with World War 2 and the Holocaust, right?

Its not the same thing exactly, but there are plenty of similarities.

Its PArcher tossing around the ridiculous personal attacks.

On a different note:

And I know it'll never happen but if we get another "crew" together like we had through most of 3.0 I really want the Deftarm to come along wth us.

I've just recently started the Vath Beast Tribe stuff and I'd LOVE this idea so very very much.

[PArcher]

Random stuff

Basically...his arguments are as someone saying the Earth is flat, refusing to listen to the evidence otherwise, claiming no one has any proof because he can't tell with his own two eyes. Him never debating, only claiming no one else was willing too, only cements this further, and that rational discussion is a lost cause (as we've seen)

And yes, there are many similarities between what the Garleans are doing and the Nazis did in WW2. Heck, the Garleans are even based on their "perfect" race...



I also find it very ironic that I'm one of the people that thinks Gauis is still alive and we'll be allying with him in 4.0. Weird huh?

[Kallera]

snip

Please do not play the WW2 card as you have. The topic of genocide is more precise, farther reaching in practice than WW2 and has none of the personal attacks you were making on their character. that someone justifies the reason for a military campaign in the context of a fictional story doesn't mean they would approve of it in real life.

Nalien makes a point(cough) in pointing out that religious belief is a far more powerful and destructive weapon in the world of hydelyn. Without the presence of chosen ones to fight off primals and given the damage the primals do when summoned in such manners, the prospect of destroying the believers becomes a tantalizing solution(and one even the eorzean cities would have embraced, Gridania in particular).

We make our RL moral judgements from a position that neither has magic, nor supernatural beings popping out at the whims of the downtrodden, smiting their enemies. In Eorzea, that is a panic many people have been living with without the comfort of a Warrior of Light.(who just happens to survive every half cocked scheme to down said primals) The guys with magitek, half a clue, and the ability to down the local Shiva with miniguns? That looks senisble, teachable, even! You can't teach The Echo, near as I can tell, and some folks, like Garleans, just do not have it, what would their answer be in the face of such destructive faith, born of the light of crystals?

They found their answer in magitek and dominion, as imperfect and destructive as it is.

[Theodric]

Basically...his arguments are as someone saying the Earth is flat, refusing to listen to the evidence otherwise, claiming no one has any proof because he can't tell with his own two eyes. Him never debating, only claiming no one else was willing too, only cements this further, and that rational discussion is a lost cause (as we've seen)

You really can't resist lacing your posts with thinly veiled insults, can you? Still no apology either, I see - but I'd be lying if I said I was surprised by that fact. You don't even seem to be aware of what you're even arguing about because I have repeatedly gone on record stating that I'd love to see Garlemald painted in a more sympathetic light. Which suggests that, yes, I agree that they're doing some pretty awful things.

What I don't agree with, however, is the idea that they are completely and thoroughly evil - or even without justification for their actions. Much of the criticism directed at Garlemald is based off of warped modern day idealism and poorly thought out platitudes as far as I'm concerned. Much of the arguments against them can be summed up as 'war is bad', 'racism is bad', 'slavery is bad'. All are horrific things in the real world to be sure - but in a fictional setting that does not need to be bound by the same limitations it is perfectly possible for fictional organisations and races to be terribly flawed whilst still having noble goals - even if they're misguided.

Furthermore this was a thread based around speculation so ranting at people for speculating is completely and utterly laughable in itself.

So let's stop beating around the bush and agree to disagree (like I've been saying all along, really). You're unlikely to change my mind just like I'm unlikely to change yours - and that's completely fine. You don't need to go on a misguided crusade over someone's interpretation of a story - especially when there's only a tiny portion of people even coming to this particular sub-forum to post on a frequent and consistent basis in the first place. Naturally with such a small pool of posters to deal with the same points of discussion are going to be brought up quite often.

I don't rant and demand that people stop whitewashing the Ala Mhigans or the Scions whenever they're brought up - because I enjoy reading different perspectives and interpretations...and I also firmly believe that morality is a far more complex issue than many believe it to be.

[Frederick22]

He means these, Frederick

I dont see anything that says that Parcher is accusing or atacking theo of being a Nazi supporter.
Those comments doesnt say anything, I think you just misundertood what she said.

[Theodric]

FIRST OF ALL, she did not sya such I thing. Did she said, "you are a nazi lover", no. Seriously is english your first languaje? Beceause it doesnt seem you undertood this properly

SECOND, why just why you wanna get involve and continue this why? Who are you? have you ever showed up on the lore threads before? seriousply please

Dont come here for the "first time" acting so rude and saing off topic things, of a discussion that long since ended. Please.

Are you seriously suggesting that people cannot weigh in with their thoughts just because they don't post here frequently or aren't widely known by a select few? There are a lot of people who view threads and debates here without posting themselves. I did that myself for quite a while before I began posting here.

Do you recall when I mentioned earlier on in the thread that this board can often feel like a biased echo chamber? That attitude doesn't do a whole lot to dispel that view.

[Lauront]

FIRST OF ALL, she did not say such I thing. Did she said, "you are a nazi lover", no. Seriously is english your first languaje? Because it doesnt seem you undertood twhat she said properly.

SECOND, why just why you wanna get involve and continue this why? Who are you? Have you ever showed up on the lore threads before?

Dont come here for the "first time" acting so rude and saing off topic things, of a discussion that long since ended. Please.

Catboys in glass houses shouldn't cast stones... that said, I don't believe anyone appointed you as being in charge of who gets to say what, or when. So do calm down.

I will say, it is interesting to see our moralists-in-chief reveal their true colours, beneath the very thin veneer of politeness.

[Pomelo]

SECOND, why just why you wanna get involve and continue this why? Who are you? Have you ever showed up on the lore threads before?

Dont come here for the "first time" acting so rude and saing off topic things, of a discussion that long since ended. Please.

Oh god. This is the Lore section not the Embarrass Yourself section.

On the topic at hand, It's quite hard to come to a conclusion about the whole Word of the Mother thing. She obviously acted in desperation and didn't know the consequences, especially now everyone acts as if "our" Minfillia is dead. I think that there is something of her still left though, in the Antitower stuff, she switches between I and We, so I don't think she is 100% 'converted' but she's just playing the part to not give us hope that she can be saved.

And Theo mentioned the "lost and alone" bit. I really don't like that, because out of everyone Minfillia trusted her friends and had faith in them the most....Hydaelyn could still be a liar.