Thread: 3.4 speculation

Originally Posted by Nestama

This goes against everything we've been fighting for. Our main goal has always been to keep Primals from being summoned (since their existence is causing harm to Hydaelyn).

Oh, I know. But if something really bad happens (perhaps an Imperial offensive on Gridania the Alliance just can't handle with no notice) we may have to.

Heck, we did allow Ysayle to summon Shiva to aid us twice. Scions happy about it? No. But we can't deny that she helped a little bit.

EDIT: And if Ramuh (or any Primal, for that matter) does have information or *something* we need to win (or even just hold out for longer to find what we need) against the Ascians, we'll have to summon him. Bad choice? Yes. But if not doing so costs us our lives, or something equally important...

Originally Posted by PArcher

Heck, we did allow Ysayle to summon Shiva to aid us twice. Scions happy about it? No. But we can't deny that she helped a little bit.

It's definitely not something we're above doing... 1.0 ended with us actively worshiping the Twelve so Lou could summon them to stop Dalamud... Granted, his plan wasn't as simple as just summoning them, but 1.0 still ended with "Hey, remember how big a deal we made about summoning being bad? Forget it, we're summoning the Twelve!" and nobody (except Gaius) made much of a fuss about that...

Until they explicitly state that it isn't happening, Free Company Primal Summoning was planned content, and last I recall the only issue was making it work within the lore, so I would expect some change that pushes towards us actively summoning, even if it's just the once (since there is a disconnect between game play and lore). It's also by far the best way remaining to us to blast Ascians... We're out of Auracite, we've got nothing left to aetherblast with, we should learn at least one thing from Thordan... I would expect the story to push towards justifying Primal Summoning in the lead up to 4.0, given that's the perfect place to introduce such content and content that justifies it (give me Campaignnnnn!), for all we know the Crystals of Light let us summon problem free...

Originally Posted by Nestama

I think Shiva is a special case, since Ysayle was using her own body (since she had the Echo, she probably had a lot of Aether to spare) to summon the Primal.

Anything stopping us doing the same? Her final summoning even involved a Crystal of Light... I would actually guess that this is what Snowcloak (Hard) would focus on; We go back there to figure out where she got her Crystal of Light and how she came about summoning Shiva proper... Queue a boss fight (maybe even with the Warriors of Darkness) and an Echo flashback to Lahabrea telling her how to become Shiva, and we've potentially got justification to walk into East Shroud, call upon Ramuh and see if he'll let us sit behind that epic beard for a time...

Lahabrea taught Ysayle how to summon Shiva, if anyone... Hydaelyn hasn't been in a position to teach anyone anything since Praetorium, so I'm incredibly doubtful she positioned Ysayle against us with Shiva... If she did... Well, that just makes it all the more likely that we'd eventually get the same treatment... But no, Lahabrea seems the prime candidate, given his involvement with Thordan (which was the exact same summoning method) and given Nabriales comments that "Lahabrea will be pleased" after witnessing our battle with Shiva, the implication there was always that Lahabrea was involved in Ysayle summoning Shiva (who was the most powerful Primal at that point, despite a significantly smaller following, good news for Plan Thordan). That perhaps makes it unlikely that we'd learn the same method, but like I said, Snowcloak (Hard) + Echo... The only thing Hydaelyn would seem to have gifted Ysayle with is a Crystal of Light, of which we have 6... Of each element... For each of the original 6 Primals...

I'd say the only thing blocking that development is Kidibus, given his little cautionary tale about heroes using Primals as weapons... Still, I'm incline to think the Warriors of Darkness are either those same heroes, or ones like them, given Y'shtola comments on the aether being strange around them and given they were slaying Ravana, so if Kidibus' master is Elidibus, one starts to doubt the authenticity of his warnings, given it would seem he is being played... As much as I want Lahabrea to make a return, Thordan did perfectly display how efficiently Primals can slay Ascians (Lahabrea may get off on a technicality, I hope that triggered a few people), were I an Ascian I would find it very logical to paint Primals as the villains so the "heroes" never use them against me...

Originally Posted by Nalien

Lahabrea taught Ysayle how to summon Shiva.

Nabriales did it, not Lahabrea.

Nabrialis told it to us during our meeting with Moenbryda.

Originally Posted by PArcher

As for the Echo, Ive thought she's had it since 2.55; her foresight there is too uncanny to be just intuition.

Since when has the Echo given us foresight, though? It lets us see past events, not future ones... For it to even have had any function in the events of 2.55, she'd also have to have been in contact with those involved to use Echo hacks to gain any insight into what was going on and it would have to have been on the spot, which doesn't give a lot of time to recover and set a clear course of action to aid us... It seems more likely to me that she just figured something was up, presumably Crystal Braves were setting up to secure the area, and were I her, I'd find it odd if my brothers militia was hanging around and he'd never informed me of it... Not hard to then be prepared for them, then send aid when events take a turn... Didn't Urianger also put in special protective measures following Lahabrea/Livia storming the place way back? Seems much more likely to me that the Waking Sands was just targeted after we entered the trap, but not before it was sprung... That gives her enough time to piece together what's happening and send the small amount of aid we received from her...

I absolutely want her to summon Phoenix-Egi though, I think that could make for a fairly nice climatic revival of someone, she'll probably have to have her brother there too though, for another use of the worlds most impractical book...

Originally Posted by KarstenS

Nabriales did it, not Lahabrea

As far as I'm aware, we don't actually have any confirmation who, but like I said, Nabriales was watching and claimed "Lahabrea will be pleased", that implies it was Lahabreas plan, not his. What's more, Lahabrea did pretty much the same thing with Thordan, then you should also consider the whole "of this world" thing and how that gains Lahabrea and Elidibus additional freedoms that Nabriales and the others lacked at that point in time... Lastly, if you tie Lahabrea back to XII, which his name is definitely referencing, then he should have some association with Ice, and indeed does, based on the ARF battle...