I guess it's time

[HeavenlyArmed]

Blizzard used to report player base until it got to 2m since they considered it low so they've stopped giving stats since then, if 2m is low i wonder what 500k is.

500k is low when the servers are filled with sprouts that don't even reach max level, people trying the game and bots.

I said 500k but we don't know the numbers, t this point it's probably more like 250k lol.

Anyway for a game with 5m accounts 500k is very low.

You're an idiot if you think it's appropriate to treat WoW as anything but an exception to the norm. No other MMO is even remotely close to its playerbase, and I even somewhat pointed that out to you in the post you quoted. And 10% of accounts as a sub base is low? Your beloved Blizzard has over 100m registered accounts. So if they hit 2m like you said, and 10% retention for subs is bad, then that must say really bad things about WoW's status, right? Or you could accept that none of us here know enough on the subject to make these claims and stop acting like any of your arguments on this front actually hold up.

[RobbieH]

You're an idiot if you think it's appropriate to treat WoW as anything but an exception to the norm. No other MMO is even remotely close to its playerbase, and I even somewhat pointed that out to you in the post you quoted. And 10% of accounts as a sub base is low? Your beloved Blizzard has over 100m registered accounts. So if they hit 2m like you said, and 10% retention for subs is bad, then that must say really bad things about WoW's status, right? Or you could accept that none of us here know enough on the subject to make these claims and stop acting like any of your arguments on this front actually hold up.

I don't know who's the idiot, me for pointing out facts that are all over the Internet or you for assuming too much just because i've posted it and never played WoW.

No point talking to you.

[Velhart]

I don't know who's the idiot, me for pointing out facts that are all over the Internet or you for assuming too much just because i've posted it and never played WoW.

No point talking to you.

No numbers anyone gives here are a fact. It is all speculation and the only people that can give accurate data is SE themselves. You can make good estimates based on certain aspects, but nothing here is considered fact unless you work at SE and have direct access to their data.

Not only that, MMO's always decrease in numbers when far into an expansion/patch, even WoW. Was the same thing in WoW that people complain the game is dying and doomed because we are on the 5th month out of 6th on patch. Then a patch happens and everyone forgets about the doom and gloom till near time for the new patch and numbers rise. Ohh crap why did I bring this up? Horizontal enthusiasts are going to have a field day with this statement. x_x

[Shurrikhan]

Twelve forbid having a good reputation of putting out non-failure content would save them money in development cost. They waste more money and time putting out stuff like LoV or diadem which isn't properly tested to see if its even worth releasing in their current state. A PTS is never a bad thing regardless of how fast a game releases content. Dead content isn't content....

To which I can only respond with the same suggestion I already gave.

Dead content may not be content, and cutting it just before release—which is all a PTR can do when the issue falls outside of small issues of balancing—may save reputation, but it IS wasted art assets and code development, not to mention additional planning time. Giving view of the initial planning stage ideas to stem provide some player sense is the only way the community itself is going to have an impact on development. Short of that, you only impact release.

A PTR can give substantial feedback for things like gear, fight, and player customization tuning, UI adjustments, QoL features, and other system changes that lay a groundwork of code and assets for which modifications merely to the surface or a small part of development can affect the apparent whole. It is not a means to say whether you like a wholly new near-finished product like Diadem and expect that, when you don't, its development time can be retroactively spent elsewhere.

[KitingGenbu]

...

I like that your response has a lot of thought put into it but one thing is missing. Isn't it amateurish to 1) not be willing to push content back in order to make sure its done well and 2) not have multiple projects on hand and decide which to launch when? Lets make one thing clear that some people do not seem to understand, SE isn't poor. They work on a lot of things and make a lot more money than your average mmorpg company since they have a multitude of projects. Even though Blizzard does tend to work on things at a greater length, their problem is that they tend to blow everything a bit too soon, leaving them with drought. Thus the quality over quantity aspect. I'd rather SE put up a PTS and take an extra month or whatever to release something that it good verses releasing content every 3 months like clock work only having half the content being wasted anyway? They honestly waste more money releasing something subpar on time versus delaying it for it to be better. Why? Look at diadem and the potential changes coming in 3.4. They have to waste time cleaning up that failure so its not a complete waste, wanting to make it more structured and establish gathering queues separated from combat queues only for it not to be properly tested again. We are essentially paying them to test their content lol.

ON A MORE SERIOUS NOTE: Does anyone mind restarting this thread with a new and more attractive title, while also taking the list beetle posted so this can spark a more serious discussion?

[RobbieH]

MMO's always decrease in numbers when far into an expansion/patch

The problem is that this game population has been declining since 2.0, 3.3 released a month ago, and yet it's doing very little to keep people interested in the game, and the population is still declining.

[KitingGenbu]

My fellow Eorzeans, let us utilize the "What about a JPN-NA thoughts corner?" thread as our flagship to unify the FFXIV community and stand together, voicing our wants and desires while also trying to understand each other!!!! FOR A BETTER EORZEA!!!!

[HeavenlyArmed]

The problem is that this game population has been declining since 2.0, 3.3 released a month ago, and yet it's doing very little to keep people interested in the game, and the population is still declining.

You're saying that the game's population has not grown at any point since 2.0? Because that's what "declining since 2.0" means, and pretty much anyone who's been playing since then can tell you how extremely incorrect that statement is.

[RobbieH]

You're saying that the game's population has not grown at any point since 2.0? Because that's what "declining since 2.0" means

No it's not.

Let's say there was a peak of 1m players in 2.0, then in 2.1 it declined to 750K and increased to 850k with 2.4, and declined again with 2.5 to 740k.

There's gains and losses but the total average amount of players is lower than in 2.0, so that's a decline.

pretty much anyone who's been playing since then can tell you how extremely incorrect that statement is.

I must be seeing ghosts then, because all the raiders i knew since 2.0 left and friends list keeps getting smaller online numbers, i wonder what that means.

[Deathgiver]

Dude, where do you get your numbers from?

Making up numbers to illustrate a point is meaningless