I guess it's time

[Velhart]

snip

In regards to everything you have said. The idea of balancing casual, midcore, and hardcore is not finding a piece of content that mashes them all together. That isn't really a thing. What is a thing is how you create content, how accessible it is, and how does it create a lasting appeal in the long run. These are fundamentals in creating balance. Note where I said "accessible", because this is the absolute most important thing for an MMO today. It shouldn't be gated heavily like FFXI nor should it's consequences be like it where if you lost a KSNM, you had to farm the seals to try again. That is a bad type of gating for this type of game.

I don't believe in complete hand holding and yes there is a lack of hardcore content. That I can completely agree with. SE caters way too heavily on the casual side and yes, midcore and hardcore suffers for it. Creating a story mode for Alexander was a mistake in my opinion and the previour tier and this one shows. I would of set it up like this:

Even patch: Alex(Normal) (FCoB level of difficulty) > Alex(Savage) (ScoB Savage difficulty)
Odd patch: Content that will help gear people better for beating Normal.
Even patch: As said above, but do the following to the previous tier: Add an echo buff to normal and tone down the mechanics so casuals can get a win on it. For Savage, keep it at a mandatory ilvl restriction for whatever the cap was during that patch's prime. That way, the difficulty is always there, even two or three expansions from it, it still retains the same level of difficulty as when it came out. This keeps content relevant forever. Add mounts, minions, and titles so when people see it they are impressed and not going "I bet they did it unsynced".

This here alone fixes a lot with what is wrong in the balance of midcore and hardcore. I am sure the people who prefer story mode are going to chase me with pitchforks, but sorry, I believe content made for midcore/hardcore need to be catered to first then casual later. Its a much needed balance unless SE can dish out three difficulty modes. The balance is that casuals will get to play this mode at their level eventually and always welcome to try it without being heavily gated beyond gear checks.

Of course at the same time, we have to balance content in other things to appeal to the casual while it may be beneficial for midcore/hardcore down the line. Its a very hard thing to deal with and FFXIV does have a lot of faults in the system that need to be addressed. However I simply don't believe FFXI's systems are the answer to it. Can simply agree to disagree on that particular notion. I believe FFXIV is in a problematic state, I just can't agree to a lot of the solutions in here.

[RobbieH]

Only jumping back in for 3.35 so I can deep dungeon with my friends.

Something is telling me Deep Dungeon will fail too, just like Diadem it's a new kind of content, but everything else remains the same.

Once people get their weapon they will stop doing DD and it will die.

New content that died fast after it released:

- Gold Saucer
- Triple Triad
- Diadem
- Lord of Verminion
- The Feast
- Aquapolis

Deep Dungeon will join the list soon enough after it releases, i'm sure of it.

[MagiusNecros]

People will get their glowstick. Get their Ahriman knockoff mount. And when it dies off the devs will likely gauge not enough people were playing PotD to warrant more floors and will just drop it entirely.

Prove me wrong community. Your actions will shine far more brightly then your words.

[seraseth]

People will get their glowstick. Get their Ahriman knockoff mount. And when it dies off the devs will likely gauge not enough people were playing PotD to warrant more floors and will just drop it entirely.

If it gives decent xp for leveling, it will stick around as an alternative to grinding the same dungeons over and over. Not to mention vets can play this with their newbie friends they invite to the game.

Things that give xp will always stick around vs things that are only good for a specific lvl or ilvl.

[RobbieH]

Things that give xp will always stick around

How do you explain FATEs being dead and lvl50 dungeons being irrelevant then?

[Iromi]

Only jumping back in for 3.35 so I can deep dungeon with my friends. I wasn't here at 2.0 launch but I did follow the game closely as a FF fan and being a FF fan I am deeprooted in the classic DnD traditions they pulled from since the dawn of FF1 on the Famicom and slowly but surely I have come to realize this is less a FF game then it is a flat MMO game. So depending on 4.0's structure I'll probably play the through 4.0 and then unsub permanently.

I mean if I don't like it I can play a real FF game right? My friends had fun with Guild Wars 2 so maybe I can have fun with that. It'll just take me time to get used to a MMO with no controller support.

Yup same here! If the reward is more useless glamour and it can be beaten quickly with no longevity...well then, rip my account till 4.0 lol.

[Velhart]

How do you explain FATEs being dead and lvl50 dungeons being irrelevant then?

I still see FATE parties happen and people do lv.50 dungeons all the time, it is called Lv.50 Roulette. With the relic requiring so much esoterics, that roulette is more relevant than ever, including Main Scenario roulette where you get poetics to buy more crystal sand.

You probably don't see as much FATE groups because SE has offered more options to get from 50 to 60, when the options at the launch of the expansion were pretty limited to spamming dungeons or FATE's.

As long as the deep dungeon is a decent way to earn EXP, then it will always be relevant.

[Claymore65]

Yup same here! If the reward is more useless glamour and it can be beaten quickly with no longevity...well then, rip my account till 4.0 lol.

I think the intent of Deep Dungeon's "longevity" lies not in its rewards, but it's ability to be repeated. We have content that can't be overgeared or overlevelled (since only your Deep Dungeon levels/gear applies and you can even reset those), has randomized floors and enemy layouts to increase replayability, and offers a decent reward for quicker gearing up and (I assume) a decent amount of EXP. The clear design of goal of Deep Dungeon is for it to be fun, and not really concerned with rewards. It looks to be made as a fun side-activity where you can tackle dungeons alone or with some friends. Personally, that sounds great to me, but I have to wait and see what it's actually like in game.

[MagiusNecros]

I still see FATE parties happen and people do lv.50 dungeons all the time, it is called Lv.50 Roulette. With the relic requiring so much esoterics, that roulette is more relevant than ever, including Main Scenario roulette where you get poetics to buy more crystal sand.

You probably don't see as much FATE groups because SE has offered more options to get from 50 to 60, when the options at the launch of the expansion were pretty limited to spamming dungeons or FATE's.

As long as the deep dungeon is a decent way to earn EXP, then it will always be relevant.

Roulette is relevant because of the relic and in effect is only done once again not for EXP but grinding for more tomestones. Deep Dungeon might be helpful for EXP and for new players but it will have little use for players who do not need or care about Experience points. If we gained more bonus attribute points continuously through EXP then it would be worth it for everyone but it is not.

I think the intent of Deep Dungeon's "longevity" lies not in its rewards, but it's ability to be repeated. We have content that can't be overgeared or overlevelled (since only your Deep Dungeon levels/gear applies and you can even reset those), has randomized floors and enemy layouts to increase replayability, and offers a decent reward for quicker gearing up and (I assume) a decent amount of EXP. The clear design of goal of Deep Dungeon is for it to be fun, and not really concerned with rewards. It looks to be made as a fun side-activity where you can tackle dungeons alone or with some friends. Personally, that sounds great to me, but I have to wait and see what it's actually like in game.

I'll let you know how that goes.

[Velhart]

Roulette is relevant because of the relic and in effect is only done once again not for EXP but grinding for more tomestones. Deep Dungeon might be helpful for EXP and for new players but it will have little use for players who do not need or care about Experience points. If we gained more bonus attribute points continuously through EXP then it would be worth it for everyone but it is not.

Whenever I level from 50 to 60 on a job, I always go through lv.50 roulette, leveling roulette, trial roulette, and main scenario roulette. All give good EXP, even trial and main scenario. It is not relevant for only tomestones. That along with daily quests/hunts every day, you can get a job from lv.50 to 60 in a very short amount of time.