I guess it's time

[Fumijj_Gah]

Interesting. So how does this work on a casual level? So far this seems more catered to hardcore players.

Eh, that's why the game is really bad for hardcore players at the moment. And for hardcore players I don't mean those who can clear the savage raids only, but people who put a true effort in order to obtain the highest rewards. Crafting system is a joke, for example. It has so much potential due the 1.0 origin/ideas but that's all. Balancing casual, midcore and hardcore contents is not a thing, it doesn't work, you need contents for all the players and their playstyle; in this way if you want a silly example, hardcore players gonna blame cause they'll say the relic is a weapon for plebs and on the other hand the casual players gonna say the relic grind is hot.

We really should get gear sets accessible only for hardcore players/those who want to put a huge effort in the game together with other people on the same page (no solo contents).
That's when you give the right pleasure to all the players. Balancing contents is an excuse, they need to do ways more, specified contents for players.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

As much as I'm openly not a fan of the relic, both old and new, what you proposed completely loses me at A (I don't mind raiding, but I already dislike the arbitrary 10 runs bit), B (Atma again), D (no. Flatly, NO.), and E (Nothing against crafters, but just like D, if you're not rich, or a crafter, you're out in the cold on this one).

I don't mind a reasonable, REASONABLE grind, and I actually prefer the chllenging road, but much of what you said is like taking the worst of the relic, and combining it with the worst of its alternatives. I respect your opinion and ideas, but no thanks.

In fairness, whether I complete this relic or not (never finished the 50 one), I'm done with relics for good if they maintain this approach.

[Fumijj_Gah]

I don't mind a reasonable, REASONABLE

That's the point; the highest-tier weapons in game should be crazy to get, not for everyone. Those are the weapons only few players per server should get, like relics in XI and legendaries on World of Warcraft.
Plus hardcore raid gear should be 20+ item level above the casual one (tomestone or whatever). Like I said before, 'dedication', 'skill' and 'rewards': that's where the game is very sick now and poor of contents.

[Erudito]

I fear it may soon be time for me as well. I have been in the game for a very long time. Not as long as 1.0 or beta or whatever but about 2 years I think.

Anyway, everything in the game feels like a job or a chore now. I do roulette, dailies, weeklies, craft, gather, manage my FCs airships, a relic and even have set long term goals. However, these days I have to think it over 2 or 3 times before I do anything because there is this grating "I don't want to do this anymore" feeling at the back of my head. Its not an "I am tired" feeling, its more of a "I really and truly hate this now, and never want to do it again" type of feeling.

I would even go as far as say that the methods the developers use to keep us here are now taking an opposite effect with me. This is even more apparent to me for gathering and crafting.
The time of the nodes and scripts are horrendous while favors timer scares me away.
For crafting, well, if I have none of the items for an item level 52 and above and don't use Market due to insane costs, it takes over twenty minutes to get all the materials and craft that one item, enough said.

I don't know. The concept of dailies and weeklies prevents me from outright taking a break.

Well, just my predicament.

[ToniRomo]

That's the point; the highest-tier weapons in game should be crazy to get, not for everyone. Those are the weapons only few players per server should get, like relics in XI and legendaries on World of Warcraft.
Plus hardcore raid gear should be 20+ item level above the casual one (tomestone or whatever). Like I said before, 'dedication', 'skill' and 'rewards': that's where the game is very sick now and poor of contents.

WoW started giving legendaries to everyone two expansions ago. MMOs aren't made for the hardcore crowd anymore because that crowd is not large enough. Players got older (work/families/etc) and the newer people coming into the genre don't want to do those hardcore grinds. Your FFXI glory days are over.

[Fumijj_Gah]

WoW started giving legendaries to everyone two expansions ago. MMOs aren't made for the hardcore crowd anymore because that crowd is not large enough. Players got older (work/families/etc) and the newer people coming into the genre don't want to do those hardcore grinds. Your FFXI glory days are over.

Well,

1) MMOs gonna be for the hardcore crowd, always; offline games are not enough for those players who just want more.
2) Hardcore and hardcore grinds are two different things; actually the only grind we have is this game with extremely boring dailies, weekly clears, beast tribe quests and relics.
3) Fans and hardcore players are those who will sub forever if the game gives what they want, casuals gonna jump around on patch day for few weeks and then freezing their accounts.

'My' FFXI was one of the greatest MMORPG ever, same goes for WoW in their golden age.
New or old generation doesn't matter, a FF signed by Hironobu Sakaguchi gonna be better than Motomu Toriyama games. Bravely Default's numbers (a classic jRPG) moved Square-Enix (thanks to the new CEO) into the old way already (Link), that's why I am Setsuna is coming and I hope the new wind gonna involve FFXIV: ARR as well. If Tanaka can get close again to the game we'll start to see something different (or we just need to wait for the next MMORPG by SE), I really have no faith in this team unless Yoshi-P gets the Squaresoft's core around him.

In a nutshell;
Final Fantasy XI Online was a classic Final Fantasy in an online world, ARR is just a post-WoW pattern MMO with 1/20 of its content and with FF references.

[Velhart]

snip

In regards to everything you have said. The idea of balancing casual, midcore, and hardcore is not finding a piece of content that mashes them all together. That isn't really a thing. What is a thing is how you create content, how accessible it is, and how does it create a lasting appeal in the long run. These are fundamentals in creating balance. Note where I said "accessible", because this is the absolute most important thing for an MMO today. It shouldn't be gated heavily like FFXI nor should it's consequences be like it where if you lost a KSNM, you had to farm the seals to try again. That is a bad type of gating for this type of game.

I don't believe in complete hand holding and yes there is a lack of hardcore content. That I can completely agree with. SE caters way too heavily on the casual side and yes, midcore and hardcore suffers for it. Creating a story mode for Alexander was a mistake in my opinion and the previour tier and this one shows. I would of set it up like this:

Even patch: Alex(Normal) (FCoB level of difficulty) > Alex(Savage) (ScoB Savage difficulty)
Odd patch: Content that will help gear people better for beating Normal.
Even patch: As said above, but do the following to the previous tier: Add an echo buff to normal and tone down the mechanics so casuals can get a win on it. For Savage, keep it at a mandatory ilvl restriction for whatever the cap was during that patch's prime. That way, the difficulty is always there, even two or three expansions from it, it still retains the same level of difficulty as when it came out. This keeps content relevant forever. Add mounts, minions, and titles so when people see it they are impressed and not going "I bet they did it unsynced".

This here alone fixes a lot with what is wrong in the balance of midcore and hardcore. I am sure the people who prefer story mode are going to chase me with pitchforks, but sorry, I believe content made for midcore/hardcore need to be catered to first then casual later. Its a much needed balance unless SE can dish out three difficulty modes. The balance is that casuals will get to play this mode at their level eventually and always welcome to try it without being heavily gated beyond gear checks.

Of course at the same time, we have to balance content in other things to appeal to the casual while it may be beneficial for midcore/hardcore down the line. Its a very hard thing to deal with and FFXIV does have a lot of faults in the system that need to be addressed. However I simply don't believe FFXI's systems are the answer to it. Can simply agree to disagree on that particular notion. I believe FFXIV is in a problematic state, I just can't agree to a lot of the solutions in here.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

That's the point; the highest-tier weapons in game should be crazy to get, not for everyone. . . Plus hardcore raid gear should be 20+ item level above the casual one (tomestone or whatever). Like I said before, 'dedication', 'skill' and 'rewards': that's where the game is very sick now and poor of contents.

For that same reason, I got into raiding, and I loved it. Sure, it was irritating being left to my own devices to do it (I was in an FC that treated raiding like an allergy, yet would run themselves into the ground for relics), and it bugged me that the raid/relic weapons leapfrogged each other between patches, but I found my dedication, skill, and reward in climbing the mountain, not walking the long trail to the top.

For those that feel a super grind is both necessary and validates the reward gained, more power to you. I prefer to test my skills at the highest level, and perhaps gain a reward through said methods.

[Cakekizyy]

If it's not fun, what is point of playing a game?

[RobbieH]

I have very low expectations for 4.0

If there's no big changes i guess that's it for this game.

- Weekly Tome limits
- Trials with Weapons of useless ilvl
- Relic is a glamour only
- There's no exploration in this game, there's sight seeing, we do it once, that's it
- FATEs dead
- 2.x content dead, do ONE dungeon of leveling/lvl50 roulette, all other dungeons become pointless and no reason to do them
- Only 2 level 60 dungeosn relevant, the expert roulette ones, lvl60 roulette useless
- No 8 man Raid roulette
- No 24 Man Raid Roulette
- One savage Raid
- Savage becomes useless after 2-3 months which is what it takes to get max ilvl gear
- Wait 3-4 months for next Savage tier
- All current max ilvl gear becomes worthless after 6 months.
- 4.0
- Repeat

(No Thanks.)