I guess it's time

[Claymore65]

I don't know why anyone would think otherwise, it's just a by-product of making a game so casual and easily-accessible that it's played by millions.

There's another factor to consider as well: Overall playerbase size. Currently, FFXIV is far larger in terms of player count than FFXI ever was. It may currently be impossible to have the same sort of tight-knit community with the game as large as it is. It's much harder to keep track of the sheer number of players.

While I understand the downsides of the "Duty Finder" and other quick-matchmaking, don't forget the benefits. Players can conveniently run most content (i.e. anything other than EX trials and Savage Raids) without having to dedicate to a firm schedule or a group. It makes the game incredibly convenient for a huge amount of players. While I certainly understand the desire for a more tight-knit community, I rather enjoy the current level of time-saving measures in the game. It allows me (and plenty of other players) to get a lot more done in a short amount of time.

I'm in no way saying the system is perfect, but a lot of the players currently playing FFXIV probably wouldn't have the time to play a much slower-paced MMO like FFXI. It comes down largely to personal preference.

[Obysuca]

There's another factor to consider as well: Overall playerbase size. Currently, FFXIV is far larger in terms of player count than FFXI ever was.

By "far larger" I assume you mean only about 100k-200k larger >_> XI peaked at around 500k-600k ish, XIV's got about that, maybe 700k ish. Don't go off of the "4 million accounts" that SE's mentioned. Accounts =/= active subscribers. Let's also not forget, part of that 700k ish are rmt. Also, just to point out, did you notice that when you search all on XIV, it won't tell you how many are actually on, like XI did? Kind of makes you feel like SE doesn't want people to know how low it really is.

[Azrael]

Also, just to point out, did you notice that when you search all on XIV, it won't tell you how many are actually on, like XI did? Kind of makes you feel like SE doesn't want people to know how low it really is.

Exactly, SE doesn't want to let us know how many people are playing this game, even though I managed to with some trick, here is what I did on my phoenix server a while back,supposed to be one of the most populated EU servers:
There is a search function that you can use, what I did was searching for 2-3 classes at once making sure the result would never hit the 200 players cap. You can test this on your server too, if you got some time, if you are curious to know how many players are online on your server.
So for example look for all warriors 1-30, then 31-59, then 60. Add the results up and write it down. Remember make sure you don't hit the 200 cap. if you hit the cap with 31-59, make a search for 31-50 and another one for 51-59.
Do this for all other classes. Don't forget the J D E F languages.
Can't remember the exact number, but my results was something like 1200-1300 players logged on at the same time. If you ask me this is a low number compared to the 3k+ I had on my ragnarok server back in the golden days of FFXI.

[Kallera]

Yes Velhart, we deal with jerks in duty finder. what you fail to mention is that the duty finder IS THE BASIS OF THE MAJORITY OF CONTENT PARTAKEN IN THIS GAME. Also, much of the community is split apart into smaller cliques, again encouraged by the content. because said content is faster, grindy, andin the case of the bleeding edge, less forgiving, this results in players making drama over even sucessful runs in lower content.

[Velhart]

Yes Velhart, we deal with jerks in duty finder. what you fail to mention is that the duty finder IS THE BASIS OF THE MAJORITY OF CONTENT PARTAKEN IN THIS GAME. Also, much of the community is split apart into smaller cliques, again encouraged by the content. because said content is faster and overall less ofrgiving, this results in players making drama over even sucessful runs.

I use the duty roulette every day. The amount of toxic players I get is extremely far between. Most of the time the most people say is "Hello" and "Good bye". No matter what MMO you play in however form it is played in, you are going to deal with toxic, misbehaving players. You cannot prevent that unless you decide to stay within your friend circle and never leave it. This particular thing is not a FFXIV problem, it is a problem with online games in general.

[Kallera]

I use the duty roulette every day. The amount of toxic players I get is extremely far between. Most of the time the most people say is "Hello" and "Good bye". No matter what MMO you play in however form it is played in, you are going to deal with toxic, misbehaving players. You cannot prevent that unless you decide to stay within your friend circle and never leave it. This particular thing is not a FFXIV problem, it is a problem with online games in general.

Yeah, and staying within the friend circle is what a lot of people do in this game. Kinda part of the forums' numbers as well. What it takes to influence someone to engage with the larger community isn't something that can be automated, and sadly, is affected by game system convienence.

[Fumijj_Gah]

We have for sure less players per server compared to FFXI's golden time while we do have more servers here, though.
Problem is overall quality dropped really hard as soon as they replaced the FFXI's team; everything is for casual players now and the hardcore contents disappeared (and no 4 bosses every 5 months doesn't change anything, plus not talking about raids only).
Yoshi-P lacks of the right mindset, unfortunately.

[Velhart]

We have for sure less players per server compared to FFXI's golden time while we do have more servers here, though.
Problem is overall quality dropped really hard as soon as they replaced the FFXI's team; everything is for casual players now and the hardcore contents disappeared (and no 4 bosses every 5 months doesn't change anything, plus not talking about raids only).
Yoshi-P lacks of the right mindset, unfortunately.

What dictates hardcore to you? Is it how long it takes to get an item? Or is it the actually level of difficulty in the content?

[Fumijj_Gah]

What dictates hardcore to you? Is it how long it takes to get an item? Or is it the actually level of difficulty in the content?

Both, long and hard contents were all around on XI back in time. With honest rewards people gonna be -proud- for years, see the Armada Hauberk set for DPS or even the relic itself.
FFXIV is just a loop of a really boring pattern where rewards gonna get deprecated in few weeks/months.
Like I've wrote before in this thread, relic quest should be like this;

a) Killing the highest raid tier multiple times (x10).
b) Getting the drop (?? item) from the same turn with a very low drop rate.
c) Getting another drop (?? item) from a secondary end game content with the same difficulty level (highest tier) such dynamis.
d) Including high amount of gils in the process.
e) Pushing the exploration, open world contents; collecting items around the world in extremely dangerous areas (raid team required to get through them).
f) Getting highest tier crafters together (those few around if we had a decent crafting system) in order to craft the item itself and to pull overmelds.


And yeah, your signature explains straight away how sick is FFXIV at the moment, with the director focusing on 'fun' and not 'dedication', 'skill' and 'rewards' which are the true essence of MMORPGs.
He even fails on the 'fun' point cause the game is super boring at the moment. If for 'fun' he means dancing emotes and few casual contents which are going to get old after few hours, then yeah, he -really- does it wrong.

[Velhart]

snip

Interesting. So how does this work on a casual level? So far this seems more catered to hardcore players. Note this is a game where they specifically mention they care about balancing casual, midcore, and hardcore content. Their execution of this philosophy is certainly questionable, but how does your approach remedy this? FFXIV certainly has it's issues in how to properly balance content and I have made several long posts on that alone, but I only see people that give ideas that cater only to a specific crowd instead of how it works to balance the philosophy they try to execute properly.

I think the "true essence" of MMORPG's is subjective. Gear to myself at least is only a means to accomplish the content in front of me. Something like beating AS8 in this game is way more satisfying than what is dangling on the stick at the end. Its a plus, but I would figure that mindset is more secondary. That is just myself however. FFXI was very gated on it's gear and content, and worked for what it was, but does this system truly appeal on a mass level? I like to see ideas that keep things balance, not cater to a niche group.