I guess it's time

[Fumijj_Gah]

Zosia, if the functionality of your idea is saying that the best players having the best gear as a reward for being the best is obtuse, I feel you are creating an inflated argument to counter a valid point. The upgrade item for the Lore weapon dropped in A7S. So you'd argue that players who did not have equivalent time and skill may also have been occluded from acquiring that weapon, correct? All right. Then, the i230 Lore weapon and i230 Anima existed. The "best" weapons were locked behind content considered by many to be too difficult. Therefore the items there intrinsically have more value. What I did was use less words to explain a point. But I can be functionally condescending, too. I just choose to do it in less characters.

This is not working, few item lvs. above the casual weapon is not an option especially when it gets deprecated few months later with the next casual 24-man raid.
It's not only the weapon, like I've said before, the whole raid gear should be ways more higher than the casual one with the help of end game crafting to push it in some way (the overmeld logic works but again it's accessible to everyone and that's not good at all). On the other hand, if the casual gamers had something to do they wouldn't blame about getting the same gear of raiders; truth is the lack of content is real and Heavensward was pretty much a joke compared to massive expansions such Aht Urhgan in FFXI.

[zosia]

Zosia, if the functionality of your idea is saying that the best players having the best gear as a reward for being the best is obtuse, I feel you are creating an inflated argument to counter a valid point. The upgrade item for the Lore weapon dropped in A7S. So you'd argue that players who did not have equivalent time and skill may also have been occluded from acquiring that weapon, correct? All right. Then, the i230 Lore weapon and i230 Anima existed. The "best" weapons were locked behind content considered by many to be too difficult. Therefore the items there intrinsically have more value. What I did was use less words to explain a point. But I can be functionally condescending, too. I just choose to do it in less characters.

no, I was saying you were acting obtuse because you threw out march 10 like every raider was showered with rewards that day. Most raiders in this game are easily 1-3 months behind world 1st groups. Even citing march 10th as something that addresses the majority of the raiding community, or whats left of it, is being obtuse.

If you want to speak on functunality, functionally, most raiders don't clear content at the same pace of world first raiders. Functionally, mentioning march 10th is pointless.

Lastly, the only reward that stands out from midas is the raid weapon. So, no, I was not talking about a7s.

To further expound on your point that Extreme Trials should drop BiS rings and other accessories, let's use your aforementioned skill gate. Not everyone is good enough to beat that content. Smaller population servers are sometimes even further at a detriment due to condensation of skill to particular groups of players, and while that is somewhat being addressed through the Raid Finder function SE just implemented, it would still point to your big gripe that my point about being better and obtaining said best items is "obtuse." See how you literally just used a bunch of words to make the same point I made while trying to inflate your argument while being needlessly inflammatory? Great. The thing is, there is best gear in the game. And the sooner you obtain it, the longer it lasts. That's an empirical fact.

Just because there will be players that can't do it, does not mean that adding raid ilvl accessories would not be a good idea. If anything, putting more low hanging fruit in the raid end game will encourage more active participation in challenging fights.

If your point is "there is a skill gate so it would be a bad idea", then I disagree with your point. It worked great for the first three EX primals and it would work great again with any trial.

As for that "emprical fact" how about we look at progression functionally rather than using world first groups as your standard. Functionally, raid rewards are poor when most raiders don't get a full clear of the raid until after that catch up patch drops. IE most midas clear came around the time the latest patch was about to come out or a little after it came out.

We now have access to the i240 Anima, which can be grinded out through esos and about ten different methods for obtaining sands, the i240 Lore, upgradable through weekly rewards from the Mhach and Void Ark Raid, and through the use of Allied Seals which are those open world hunts I've been hearing so much about.

Which only serves to highlight how pointless investing in any of these activities seems. Functionally, all the rewards in this game are so standardized that nothing feels rewarding anymore. Got a 240 weapon? Big woop, just wait utnil the next patch when you can get a free 250 weapon. Got a 240 BiS chest piece from a8s? No worries, in 2.4 there will be a crafted chest that replaces it immediately even before the new alex progression starts.

They did release the highest ilvl in 3.2. It was locked behind the hardest content in the game. If you can't beat it, then you have to wait until they alleviate it with separate solutions, which they did in 3.3 with the tokens I'm casual content. If you weren't Raiding Savage, you've had either your i230 Lore weapon, your i230 Anima weapon, the i220 Sephirot, or the i210 Eso. Depending on which, I'd say that speaks to some longevity.

Nope, I don't have to do any of that, I got my gear, It was unsatisfying. The only thing I am missing is my midan weapon, which is what? A 4% performance gain on average? WHOOO HOOO can't wait to take that 4% performance upgrade and watch it get thrown into the garbage when Midas BiS is obliterated by the next set of crafted battle class gear.

This game has been unsatisfying, and as I said earlier in this thread, I am done subbing to this game. Keep defending the status quo, the last handful of you will really enjoy yourselves.

I've read every page of this thread, and it has to be one of the most asinine things I've ever seen.

Having a history of hardcore gameplay in MMO's such as EQ, FFXI, and even WoW, I can clearly see who's doing this complaining. It's the 8 hours a day players who are looking for this "deeper more involved content" here.

First off, Iromi, I could go back and actually quote your old posts, but I don't really feel like it. In this thread alone you've explained how you've done everything in this game. All while attending college full time and working full time along side a boyfriend who allegedly has the same responsibilities as you. Let's be clear here, there's no need to lie about your out of game activitites.. just be honest. you have played A LOT of FFXIV and have done it all, and that's fine. There's no need to make it sound like the game is SO EASY that ANYONE with a few hours and some determination can complete everything. They can't. So, yea.

Back to the topic at hand... There are many, like myself, who have done the hardcore. For people like myself, the middle of the road difficulty or even outright easy difficulty for some content works just fine. I'm offered enough challenge to keep myself interested (Nidhogg, Mcach), and enough busy work to enjoy myself until the next 3.x. This game, from what I can tell, was never meant to be your FFXI. It's not meant to be your WoW, It's certainly not meant to be your EQ. it's FFXIV:ARR, and it's trying to fit it's own niche.

It has content for crafters, gatherers, RPers, Casuals, Hardcores, and those inbetween. It has an involved FF story arc, and it requires you complete it. It tries to cater mostly to people like myself - those that love FF and are happy to play in a Theme Park MMO that idolizes it. It's supposed to be accessible. It's SUPPOSED to be doable.

You don't have to play this game 8 hrs a day to stay current, at all. You are generating this imaginary raider to plop your argument on top of and it's just not the reality of the situation. And no, there is no content offered to players that are between hardcore and casual, none. There is no real midtier end game. There is just an amalgamation of fights (midas) where the progression curve started off bimodal with an exponential tail. The content is this game either flops or is old after a month of play. The only staying power is in the savage raid which is poorly supported. SE seems to have zero ability to foster a raiding comminity in this game, you only need to look at your average server to get an idea of how poorly raiding is doing in this game.

If the developers wanted to cater to those hardcores that want to feel like their time was valued, they likely would have already. It's been years thus far. They haven't. Hardcores are given some content that they do complete. To ask them to fundamentally change the game (ilvl jumps, stat distribution, and / or item effects for longevity)so you can feel special is futile.

and that's why hardcore players have been leaving the game in droves since heavenward. Don't worry, we got the hint, we are headed to greener pastures, you guys can have this glamour RP hello kitty grind fest of an MMO>

In short, that's what not what FFXIV:ARR was ever supposed to be. You had some fun in 2.0 and up, there was content there that made you feel special. I'm sorry if you don't today and are tired of the formula. If you're looking for games that have what you want, then listen to what other people say - PLAY THOSE GAMES! They exist BTW. Try some Dark Souls for difficulty. Maybe play EVE online, with unrelenting and punishing space piracy and cutthroat PvP. You could play WoW for your raid focus content... or even go back to the old games, like FFXI or even emulated old school EQ.

Don't try to change FFXIV to something it was never intended to be. It will never work.

The forums exist for players to provide feedback. That's whats happening here. Don't try to change the purpose of the forums only to say not the change the game. Makes you come off as a hypocrite.

[Iromi]

Further begs the question..due to lack of horizontal content..what does a ilv245 weapon help you do? Clear the savage again faster? Do your trials/roulette's faster? >.> I mean sure one can say doing the savage fights are fun and the reward is whatever..but what is it's use...really?

In other games I've played you get the high reward to tackle other, equally hard or harder stuff with your guild/LS/Clan or whatever..but this game has none of that. And trials can be easily done with a standard 230 weapon or whatever..

See there is much more issues here heh

[vp_cmc]

Further begs the question..due to lack of horizontal content..what does a ilv245 weapon help you do? Clear the savage again faster? Do your trials/roulette's faster? >.> I mean sure one can say doing the savage fights are fun and the reward is whatever..but what is it's use...really?

Hey, it helps me stand in light and glory.. In Idyllshire

Speaking in FFXIV terms if we actually had a true relic in here it should include;

a) Killing the highest raid tier multiple times (x10).
b) Getting the drop (?? item) from the same turn with a very low drop rate.

Only if they remove weekly lockouts, else it is just a time sink. And in this case it's actually doable, because if you killed it once in a static, there are no issues to kill it again.

[Fumijj_Gah]

Only if they remove weekly lockouts, else it is just a time sink. And in this case it's actually doable, because if you killed it once in a static, there are no issues to kill it again.

Yeah of course, no lockouts at all for every content in the game. Lockouts are there cause there's nothing to do in game. Lack of true content is real.

[odintius]

Further begs the question..due to lack of horizontal content..what does a ilv245 weapon help you do? Clear the savage again faster? Do your trials/roulette's faster? >.> I mean sure one can say doing the savage fights are fun and the reward is whatever..but what is it's use...really?

In other games I've played you get the high reward to tackle other, equally hard or harder stuff with your guild/LS/Clan or whatever..but this game has none of that. And trials can be easily done with a standard 230 weapon or whatever..

See there is much more issues here heh

You know what the typical responds will be it for the next raid teir that comes out after few months and the hamster wheel keeps spinning. /sigh

[MagiusNecros]

Relic needs to be as strong as the highest ilvl weapon. And steps to get there should come as the ilvl increase happens. Not be a whole patch behind incurring 5-10 ilvl deficit.

It shouldn't be casually tossed away like they did with the Zeta.

[Fumijj_Gah]

Speaking in FFXIV terms if we actually had a true relic in here it should include;

a) Killing the highest raid tier multiple times (x10).
b) Getting the drop (?? item) from the same turn with a very low drop rate.
c) Getting another drop (?? item) from a secondary end game content with the same difficulty level (highest tier) such dynamis.
d) Including high amount of gils in the process.
e) Pushing the exploration, open world contents; collecting items around the world in extremely dangerous areas (raid team required to get through them).
f) Getting highest tier crafters together (those few around if we had a decent crafting system) in order to craft the item itself and to pull overmelds.

Not even the first step should be reachable by casual players with the relic being the highest tier weapon in game raiders slowly gonna collect, step by step.

[Vantol]

Speaking in FFXIV terms if we actually had a true relic in here it should include;

a) Killing the highest raid tier multiple times (x10).
b) Getting the drop (?? item) from the same turn with a very low drop rate.
c) Getting another drop (?? item) from a secondary end game content with the same difficulty level (highest tier) such dynamis.
d) Including high amount of gils in the process.
e) Pushing the exploration, open world contents; collecting items around the world in extremely dangerous areas (raid team required to get through them).
f) Getting highest tier crafters together (those few around if we had a decent crafting system) in order to craft the item itself and to pull overmelds.

Not even the first step should be reachable by casual players with the relic being the highest tier weapon in game raiders slowly gonna collect, step by step.

So much this! I hate the way relic is handled in this game with passion! Relic should be the strongest weapon that only a few people of millions possess. Our current "relic" is "artifact" weapon at best.

[DPZ2]

So much this! I hate the way relic is handled in this game with passion! Relic should be the strongest weapon that only a few people of millions possess. Our current "relic" is "artifact" weapon at best.

Relic weapons are the means by which all of those non-Raiding members of the MMO can get a good looking weapon with a decent iLevel. It is definitely not the Best-in-Spec, nor is it intended as such.

The reason it is called a Relic is because it recreates an historical weapon of renown.