I guess it's time

[Iromi]

So the effective solution that the majority has been clamouring for here is to add Notorious Monsters from FFXI, and make them drop an RNG based weapon. Which is just more grinding or more work. At worst, you'd have people camping it and creating a toxic environment like they did in XI. At best, everyone gets credit and the new endgame is standing around in the woods until X monster pops and killing it. What a diverse endgame content solution you have, pure genius. These ideas suck.

Uh, first off this game is way more toxic then FFXI ever was. My FC has been threatened to be beat up at fanfest (lol) I see horror stories CONSTANTLY with screen shots on FB groups, there is a thread here dedicated to horror DF stories..so again..wat? I've never seen so many people posting screenshots of their horrible experiences and venting as I have for this game.

In FFXI sure there was fighting over NM..but those were NM that spawned from lottery. I've seen people ask for FORCE POP NM..like yanno, fraction leves in 1.x? Only your party can fight it and touch the mob and decide when to pop it...I fail to see how that would create a toxic environment? And this is coming from me, possibly the most bullied person on FFXI due to 1 single cosplay picture I uploaded. Nope, I am having a way worse experience with toxicity in XIV then I EVER did in XI.

And nah, fighting NM's like fraction leves (Where you just pick up a leve with a very difficult NM for your FC..or rather LS back then) is not "standing in the woods" lol.

Shoot, even if you went into diadem and could do that that would stir things up. Again though, like my other post where you claimed I totally unsubbed..nice try lol.

[zosia]

Uh, first off this game is way more toxic then FFXI ever was. My FC has been threatened to be beat up at fanfest (lol) I see horror stories CONSTANTLY with screen shots on FB groups, there is a thread here dedicated to horror DF stories..so again..wat? I've never seen so many people posting screenshots of their horrible experiences and venting as I have for this game.
In FFXI sure there was fighting over NM..but those were NM that spawned from lottery. I've seen people ask for FORCE POP NM..like yanno, fraction leves in 1.x? Only your party can fight it and touch the mob and decide when to pop it...I fail to see how that would create a toxic environment?

Shoot, even if you went into diadem and could do that that would stir things up. Again though, like my other post where you claimed I totally unsubbed..nice try lol.

If anything, ffXI endgame has like an unofficial code of conduct. I remember an endgame HMN LS falling apart after they stole a tag one night. There was a stronger sense of honor amongst the end game LS for 11 than I see among the end game FCs of 14.

I think you are right. I think FFXIV is far more toxic in so many regards that 11 ever was, and ff11 had some pretty toxic moments.

[Iromi]

If anything, ffXI endgame has like an unofficial code of conduct. I remember an endgame HMN LS falling apart after they stole a tag one night. There was a stronger sense of honor amongst the end game LS for 11 than I see among the end game FCs of 14.

I think you are right. I think FFXIV is far more toxic in so many regards that 11 ever was, and ff11 had some pretty toxic moments.

Yup, both have their fair share but I must say..due to the nature of the DF and the outcome of never seeing people again, people have just become more toxic..after all, what do they care, there is no consequence really. Maybe a slap on the wrist suspension if you name call? If you did anything bad in XI you were banned forever LOL Good ol LM-17.

But yeah as you say..in FFXI, reputation held much more merit and while there was jerks and so forth they did not get away with acting that way..they would be quickly ousted from the community by most people. You can't do that in XIV because there really is no sense of community ^^;

[Azrael]

So the effective solution that the majority has been clamouring for here is to add Notorious Monsters from FFXI, and make them drop an RNG based weapon. Which is just more grinding or more work. At worst, you'd have people camping it and creating a toxic environment like they did in XI. At best, everyone gets credit and the new endgame is standing around in the woods until X monster pops and killing it. What a diverse endgame content solution you have, pure genius. These ideas suck.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3762557

Many suggestions were given in this topic to make the rewards and gameplay more interesting, still you are trying to act like nobody is giving feedback and quoting words out of the contest to prove that your point is right.
Not gonna say anything else because the people above me just said everything I wanted to.

[Claymore65]

While I've been very positive overall, I don't mean to say there's no room for improvement. In fact, there is plenty. Content like Diadem could use a revamp, and I think there is a place for more varied dungeon designs, although I'll admit the "Hallway + bosses" dungeon design is a direct response to speedrunners, since it seems like many players would skip the optional areas anyway. I would love to see some more meaningful character customization personally as well. I still think the game is in a good place overall, but that doesn't mean I don't wan to see it evolve or improve over time.

I just disagree with some of the suggestions here. For example, I don't think "Open World dungeons + NMs" is the "end all be all" solution. I actually much prefer instanced dungeons to waiting for monsters to pop on the map, just as I prefer easier, quicker travel times. Other players, however, prefer long, very dangerous open-worlds that require a party to travel through (a la FFXI). Neither of us are wrong for our preferences, but unfortunately the game is going to have difficulty satisfying both of those urges. I feel like Diadem has the potential to serve as a "Dangerous Open World Adventure", but it would need some improvements first. For example, if it's supposed to stay dangerous for a long period of time, it should probably have some kind of ilevel synch on it or at least an optional one. I also heavily disagree with things like bringing back the Elemental Wheel, since it will just lead to inevitable balance issues down the road. While it's fun in a single player game, it's less fun to exclude jobs purely based on the elemental traits of a fight. I also find the current grinding pace is pretty casual and new player friendly, with players able to feel relevant in newer content without putting in a ton of hours. For example, I like how leveling in FFXIV doesn't take too long, and I always feel like I can get a good bit done even in a small amount of time.

Namely, the topic of "Longevity" is a very tricky subject. Some players would love to grind 3 months to have a weapon that lasts 3 years, while others prefer much more frequent gear upgrades. It seems like, at least for a lot of people, the "longevity" of a piece of content is literally only tied to what gear it gives, and nothing else. That's certainly a possible problem, whether because people don't find the content fun enough to clear at least once without heavy awards, or because the rewards aren't good enough. There probably do need to be some improvements in the itemization structure, perhaps by slowing down the rate of ilevel increases, but once again that's a tricky problem to solve. If people go too long in between gear upgrades, they'll likely get bored and feel like they have nothing to strive for. If it's too soon (as some in this thread believe), then people think it's not worth getting the gear. It's a tricky conundrum, and one that perhaps the Devs will need to consider in the future.

They could make it better by making the relic available from the start and not one patch later, it would be relevant by then.

That's something I definitely agree with. Relics should come out around the same time as ilvl increases. Ideally the Relic would be a much slower way to acquire a Raid Quality weapon without actually raiding, while Raid weapons should be acquired much quicker. It's still going to be tough to balance the timing between the two though, without making the Relic too much of slog.

[Zojha]

If people go too long in between gear upgrades, they'll likely get bored and feel like they have nothing to strive for.

This is something that can already happen with tome gear, if people are stat focused, have decked out their main job, have no desire to gear up alt jobs and have no means to do Savage for whatever reason. These people quite frequently stop playing until further upgrades are available. Basically, about 12 weeks after a catch-up patch like this, these people (again) have no reason to log in anymore. To deck out oneself in tome gear also takes around 14 weeks. That is roughly 3 months. I wager it happens much sooner for successful Savage raiders.

[vp_cmc]

It's the same 20% rule, that is valid for all software, not just for games. People use 20% of features. BUT! Different people use different 20%, so you can't just remove 80% of features.

[Daemius]

Just coming in here to say NMs dropping relevant gear sounds awful. Did people really enjoy things like camping Valkurm Emperor? I know I didn't.

I think a compromise is possible between keeping casuals relevant and giving raiders the merits they want without making the entire endgame hardcore only. Keep tome ilvl similar to raid content crud so casuals have a shot at some content if they choose to do so. Make raid content crud drop idk, set items that give unique bonuses of some kind? Glows, titles, overall cosmetic changes (IE Trangs set in D2), you could even add set bonuses like the GC gear gave. While you can't give out cool stats like "MP Refresh +20" given how streamlined stats are, you could give out more secondary stats like those sets did so that raiders can still say they're the best. It would be even better if those secondary stat boosts gave you that much of an easier time when new content is released.

[Fumijj_Gah]

The actual relic system is a joke, the game needs those legendary items which just few people on every server can afford. Need raids revamp with more creativity and dungeons included, raid gear needs to be 20+ item level above the casual gear sets such Lore now and the raid gear itself needs to be pushed to its limit through the craft. In a nutshell, the dev. team needs to stop copy/paste-ing the same content and give it to everyone.

[Judah_Brandt]

Zosia, if the functionality of your idea is saying that the best players having the best gear as a reward for being the best is obtuse, I feel you are creating an inflated argument to counter a valid point. The upgrade item for the Lore weapon dropped in A7S. So you'd argue that players who did not have equivalent time and skill may also have been occluded from acquiring that weapon, correct? All right. Then, the i230 Lore weapon and i230 Anima existed. The "best" weapons were locked behind content considered by many to be too difficult. Therefore the items there intrinsically have more value. What I did was use less words to explain a point. But I can be functionally condescending, too. I just choose to do it in less characters.

To further expound on your point that Extreme Trials should drop BiS rings and other accessories, let's use your aforementioned skill gate. Not everyone is good enough to beat that content. Smaller population servers are sometimes even further at a detriment due to condensation of skill to particular groups of players, and while that is somewhat being addressed through the Raid Finder function SE just implemented, it would still point to your big gripe that my point about being better and obtaining said best items is "obtuse." See how you literally just used a bunch of words to make the same point I made while trying to inflate your argument while being needlessly inflammatory? Great. The thing is, there is best gear in the game. And the sooner you obtain it, the longer it lasts. That's an empirical fact.

We now have access to the i240 Anima, which can be grinded out through esos and about ten different methods for obtaining sands, the i240 Lore, upgradable through weekly rewards from the Mhach and Void Ark Raid, and through the use of Allied Seals which are those open world hunts I've been hearing so much about.

They did release the highest ilvl in 3.2. It was locked behind the hardest content in the game. If you can't beat it, then you have to wait until they alleviate it with separate solutions, which they did in 3.3 with the tokens I'm casual content. If you weren't Raiding Savage, you've had either your i230 Lore weapon, your i230 Anima weapon, the i220 Sephirot, or the i210 Eso. Depending on which, I'd say that speaks to some longevity.

As for this, I'm actually done replying within the thread because the majority of the posts are becoming a suck fest about how great FFXI was and how FFXIV pales in comparison to its alleged greatness. No useful input to be had, no functional suggestions, just a pity party and whiny nostalgia thread. To be completely fair, at least Zosia had suggestions, and that's a start.