Will they ever stop with constant Vertical Progression?

[bass9020]

Again this is exactly why we need IXs ability/trait system! It allows gear to not be saved for long periods of time which is what yoshi fears and it keeps armor sets down. It should involve the class guilds again and use guild tokens like what we had in 1.0.

[Ibi]

1. You can still get stronger over time with horizontal progression.

Marginally at most, or it's not really horizontal progression.

I was specifically talking about this though: I don't think that older content should be eased. It should remain challenging, and it should remain relevant.

4. Again, older content should remain relevant. Just because it's "old" doesn't mean it should be useless.

Why? What's the purpose of keeping players in content that they mastered weeks or even months ago? Unless the content itself is fun and interesting, but if that's the case why does it matter what the rewards are?

Old content is new content to new players. For old players, they've likely already gotten what they need from it. And if they haven't, they probably haven't run it dozens of times.

Horizontal progression systems generally have a much slower rate of reward acquisition. Fast acquisition of rewards makes the content go obsolete just as quickly as they would under a vertical progression system (if not more so, since the horizontal progression means that each event is going to have fewer relevant rewards than it would under a vertical progression system).

I ran Dynamis and Limbus twice a week for over two years in FFXI, and still didn't have several of the items I was looking for by the end of that.

5. The incentive to run content should always primarily be fun.

Fun is hugely subjective, and if a developer tries to make that the only appeal of new content, they're only ever going to engage a fraction of the player base.

[MomomiMomi]

Why? What's the purpose of keeping players in content that they mastered weeks or even months ago? Unless the content itself is fun and interesting, but if that's the case why does it matter what the rewards are?

Exactly. I'm glad you understand.

[Felis]

Every single patch, it's new gear, higher item lvl, 5-8 more main stat per piece, no sets, no effects, nothing.

Every 2nd patch, not every single patch
Last max ilevel increase was in 2.2 and the next will be in 2.4

[Ibi]

Exactly. I'm glad you understand.

But, like I already said, it's effectively impossible for a developer to make content that even a majority of the player base will find fun and interesting enough just on its own merits to sustain their interest for months at a time.

Which is why we end up with some other motivating factor, in the form of rewards, and the reason these threads come up multiple times a week.

[MomomiMomi]

But, like I already said, it's effectively impossible for a developer to make content that even a majority of the player base will find fun and interesting enough just on its own merits to sustain their interest for months at a time.

Which is why we end up with some other motivating factor, in the form of rewards, and the reason these threads come up multiple times a week.

Then they can make all types of content, and make them all relevant. Everyone happy.

Instead, we get the same regurgitated content every patch. But hey, it has new gear that completely replaces your old one, so get to it!

[RobbieH]

Oldschool MMORPGs solved this with low droprate, so many players don't have the wanted gear within the first 6 months

With what i've been reading on these forums that would cause a huge drop in casuals on this game, their comments seem to be based on one thing: they want everything with low effort.

[Ibi]

Then they can make all types of content, and make them all relevant. Everyone happy.

Sure, assuming you intentionally overlook the fact that they have a limited time and resource budget that makes this impossible.

[MomomiMomi]

Sure, assuming you intentionally overlook the fact that they have a limited time and resource budget that makes this impossible.

By not making the same content every time, they can instead devote those resources to new types of content. So it's not as limited as you suggest.

[Zojha]

[...] they want everything with low effort.

If you had a total of 5 hours to play "a week"...would you play a game in which you could accomplish nothing in that time? I know I would choose a different game.