Will they ever stop with constant Vertical Progression?

[Stormfur]

I think they've said already that they won't be doing this, because no matter what, there will always be a "best of" build that everyone will flock to, making all that development time pretty much wasted. I, too, wish they'd do *something* but I'm not sure what that something is.

[LineageRazor]

I think they've said already that they won't be doing this, because no matter what, there will always be a "best of" build that everyone will flock to, making all that development time pretty much wasted. I, too, wish they'd do *something* but I'm not sure what that something is.

The answer is situational traits. Stuff that's good in some fights, and worse in others. As an example, let's go back to the days of Turn 2 before enrage farming was an option and folks actually had to deal with Allagan Rot. Now, let's introduce a piece of armor with terrible stats, but reduces the recast for Blunt Arrow to two seconds. Suddenly, you have a BRD that can silence High Voltage every time - even if you kill the Quarantine Node to disable Allagan Rot, which makes the boss SO much easier. Now you have two pieces of desirable gear - the normal vertical progression gear for damage, and the Blunt Arrow gear for instances where things frequently need to be silenced.

Of course, this means that every BRD will be expected to obtain BOTH pieces of gear, but it does introduce gear variety - and it also introduces a piece of gear which remains useful for a long period of time, as that Blunt Arrow enhancement remains useful regardless of the other stats on the gear.

It bears mentioning, though, that this makes BRD pretty much indispensable for stuff where Silence is needed - and making one job indispensable is one thing SE is hoping to avoid. It's a tradeoff, and as someone who came from an MMO where jobs cycled through "flavors of the week" nigh constantly (some jobs must-have, others practically ignored, and which was which could change every patch) I know how bad this can be. It does make things more INTERESTING, though, and to me that's more important than ensuring that every job is included, always.

[Ibi]

It does make things more INTERESTING, though, and to me that's more important than ensuring that every job is included, always.

Is that really more interesting though?

You're still not having to even think about what piece of armor to equip in any particular situation. If you need to silence frequently, you put on the low recast armor, and go about your business. If you don't, you wear your normal armor, and go about your business. The only real difference between what we have now and what we'd have under those conditions is that if you want to do the content that requires frequent silencing, the group must have a bard with that piece of equipment. It's additional constraints without adding any real depth.

In general, there are a lot of advantages to a vertical progression system (and I'm aware I'm focusing on the pros and not the cons here):

1. Your character gets noticeably stronger over time. In addition to being able to feel a sense of progression, this (in theory) allows the difficulty of older content to be eased without the need for extensive manual adjustments by the developers.
2. The pace of rewards can be fairly frequent, since they're not intended to last for very long periods of time.
3. Balancing a simple vertical progression system is much easier. Players never have to worry about being excluded because you've had poor luck obtaining a rare but extremely powerful item.
4. You don't have to keep running old content that you may have mastered months ago and completed dozens of times, just because its rewards remain relevant.
5. Even if it's not by much, rewards from new content can be clearly better than rewards from old content, meaning there's always an incentive for everyone to run new content.

[MomomiMomi]

In general, there are a lot of advantages to a vertical progression system (and I'm aware I'm focusing on the pros and not the cons here):

I see 1, 4 and 5 as cons.

[Fyce]

I see 1, 4 and 5 as cons.

Why do you even play this game if the core fundamentals it's built on don't appeal to you?
This game is made from the very beginning (at least 2.0) to make older content trivial while forcing you to keep playing in order to reach the required iLv of the newest content. This is exactly why the current patch cycle is what it is and that we get new content on a regular and frequent basis.

Maybe you have nostalia glasses on, but there's no way a game company running a MMORPG in our day and age will ask their players to continue playing years old content on a daily routine.
SE tries to add some stuff to make us go queuing in old content from time to time, but that's clearly dedicated to help new players grow.

... I mean, complaining about vertical progression in a game specificaly built on it seems a bit off.

[Ibi]

I see 1, 4 and 5 as cons.

If you see those as cons, that seems to imply:

1. You prefer that your character not get stronger over time.
4. You prefer that you're still incentivized to run content you've already completed dozens of times.
5. You prefer that the rewards from new content not be superior, meaning there may be no reward-based incentive to run it.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess, but I'd concur with Fyce that this seems like a weird game to choose to play if that's the case.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The answer is situational traits. Stuff that's good in some fights, and worse in others. As an example, let's go back to the days of Turn 2 before enrage farming was an option and folks actually had to deal with Allagan Rot. Now, let's introduce a piece of armor with terrible stats, but reduces the recast for Blunt Arrow to two seconds. Suddenly, you have a BRD that can silence High Voltage every time - even if you kill the Quarantine Node to disable Allagan Rot, which makes the boss SO much easier. Now you have two pieces of desirable gear - the normal vertical progression gear for damage, and the Blunt Arrow gear for instances where things frequently need to be silenced.

Of course, this means that every BRD will be expected to obtain BOTH pieces of gear, but it does introduce gear variety - and it also introduces a piece of gear which remains useful for a long period of time, as that Blunt Arrow enhancement remains useful regardless of the other stats on the gear.

It bears mentioning, though, that this makes BRD pretty much indispensable for stuff where Silence is needed - and making one job indispensable is one thing SE is hoping to avoid. It's a tradeoff, and as someone who came from an MMO where jobs cycled through "flavors of the week" nigh constantly (some jobs must-have, others practically ignored, and which was which could change every patch) I know how bad this can be. It does make things more INTERESTING, though, and to me that's more important than ensuring that every job is included, always.

I don't know about anyone else, but I hate the idea of having however many weapons/gear that mostly sits in my already cramped inventory except for maybe one fight. That doesn't make gear interesting, just a tedious progress of running to your retainers depending on the fight you're doing.

[bass9020]

I don't know about anyone else, but I hate the idea of having however many weapons/gear that mostly sits in my already cramped inventory except for maybe one fight. That doesn't make gear interesting, just a tedious progress of running to your retainers depending on the fight you're doing.

Exactly why I keep bringing up the IX system of learning the abilities or buying them with guild marks rather than having them on gear. Or do it similar to spirit bonding where you wear the gear and over time you learn whatever on that piece of gear. This way the gear system will still be exactly how it is now boring but will allow people to not hold so many pieces for each fight.

[Moomba33]

I don't see the appeal of horizontal progression to be honest. I don't want to have to farm multiple sets of equipment for every job that I play.
With XIV's current pace of upgrades I can keep even my rarely played alts geared enough to do the content I run with dungeon drops and the uncapped tomestone.

What I would like to see is more varied content that is worth running. The Aquapolis was a good start and I now get a lot of my tomes from map nights with my FC instead of expert roulette. I'm hopeful that the Palace of the Dead will also prove to be fun and rewarding and that SE will be able to revamp Diadem into something more fun in the future.

[RobbieH]

I don't see the appeal of horizontal progression to be honest. I don't want to have to farm multiple sets of equipment for every job that I play.

And why would you need the best sets for every job you play?