"Coming into its own" is too much!

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I see the self entitled casual brigade are trying to ruin this game too. /Sigh.

Everyone has a life and commitments. You aren't special. Want something thats designed to be difficult to obtain? Work for it. Instead of being selfish and thinking only of yourself.

That's a 2 way street there.

Need I remind that the reason we have this tedious grind is because the "self entitled casual brigade" complained about not being able to clear Titan HM way back when, thus any and all challenge/difficulty was taken out of the quest in favor of a lengthy but "easy" grind?

Thing is, this is all a bit too rooted in perception for anyone to truly be right. Some find the challenge of primals to be the "easier" route where others would avoid any and all challenge even if it takes longer. I can never forget the former FC member who singularly focused on light farming all day. . . Until the bonus was in T4. Suddenly it was time to take a break. I think that was absolutely pathetic, and nowhere near in line with the idea of "working for it". But that's merely one case.

SE needs to realize that the current approach to the relic (that is arbitrarily high number/low drop rate/catalyst for rerunning old content) is beginning to do more harm than good. Some will be fine with it, some won't, but creating a long road of item grinds, using it as life support for old content, and calling it "easy" is as bad as players saying "Having to run X challenge is too hard!"

We're not lv. 50, ilvl70/90 newbies anymore. At some point people really will, and should have to be challenged to "work for it". Something's got to give.

[Mindiori]

That's a 2 way street there.

Need I remind that the reason we have this tedious grind is because the "self entitled casual brigade" complained about not being able to clear Titan HM way back when, thus any and all challenge/difficulty was taken out of the quest in favor of a lengthy but "easy" grind?

Oh I'm not disputing that they always find a way to appease them. They should have content that befits a limited play time, whilst those who have more should be rewarded in similar fashion.

Personally I work 4:30am until 7-8 pm. So I'm hardly someone with a lot of gaming time. But in my eyes, my point stands. I don't expect the game to make allowances for me just because I have decided to pursue a career and other obligations. It cheapens the meaning of the achievements of others, so why should anyone else try and justify otherwise?

People constantly expecting handouts because 'they cant spare the time' drives me nuts.

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

Oh I'm not disputing that they always find a way to appease them. They should have content that befits a limited play time, whilst those who have more should be rewarded in similar fashion.

Personally I work 4:30am until 7-8 pm. So I'm hardly someone with a lot of gaming time. But in my eyes, my point stands. I don't expect the game to make allowances for me just because I have decided to pursue a career and other obligations. It cheapens the meaning of the achievements of others, so why should anyone else try and justify otherwise?

People constantly expecting handouts because 'they cant spare the time' drives me nuts.

Time isn't actually the problem. TONS of FF14 players found time to play Blade and Soul.... Laziness is the problem

Designing parts of the game for lazy players is fine, but I think designing the WHOLE game for lazy players is a recipe for disaster. How long till we are just sitting in garrisons and letting NPCs play the game for us? Because doing anything except the story is too hardcore, and the new pplz are getting left behind.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Time isn't actually the problem. TONS of FF14 players found time to play Blade and Soul.... Laziness is the problem

Designing parts of the game for lazy players is fine, but I think designing the WHOLE game for lazy players is a recipe for disaster. How long till we are just sitting in garrisons and letting NPCs play the game for us? Because doing anything except the story is too hardcore, and the new pplz are getting left behind.

Everyone I know who went to play B&S came back cuz that game was lacking lol.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

At this point, it's not about expecting hand outs.

Atma 3.0 but now 18 instead of 12?
Getting 10 of item A to earn 1 of B/C/D/E, plus 4 high quality crafted F/G/H/I?

It's not even a matter of too quick/too easy but "is this really worth my time?" I actually have less time to play now than I used to, and was completely turned off by it then. SE had a chance to do right by the old relic quest, and do something different or better. And they DIDN'T

I consider myself one of the rare cases who just wholeheartedly dislikes the relic, both old and new. If you like it and don't mind the grind, go for it. Get them all, and I'll commend your efforts. If not, set yourself free now and enjoy everything else the game has to offer. . . SE's lucky if I even read one letter of the patch notes that concern relics from now on.

[kuma_aus]

I consider myself one of the rare cases who just wholeheartedly dislikes the relic, both old and new. If you like it and don't mind the grind, go for it. Get them all, and I'll commend your efforts. If not, set yourself free now and enjoy everything else the game has to offer. . . SE's lucky if I even read one letter of the patch notes that concern relics from now on.

Then why keep complaining about it? If you dislike it, then the relic is obviously not designed for you.

Don't want to grind, don't want to do hard content = Get Lore Weapon.
Don't want to grind, don't want to do hard content and don't want to wait weeks of lockout = Get Augmented Esoterics Weapon.
Don't want to grind, want to do hard content = Get Nidhogg Weapon.
Don't want to grind, want to do very hard content = Get Alexander Weapon.
Don't mind grinding or are fine with slowly working on getting the weapon as you play the game normally = Relic.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Then why keep complaining about it? If you dislike it, then the relic is obviously not designed for you.

I complain because:

I can.
Someone should.
Apparently they DO listen. (Primal Birds)
I don't mind a sensible grind. (Which this is not)
I actually PREFER to be challenged than handed a lame grind. (Which this is)
Tome weapons once took 3 weeks due to weekly caps, was suddenly increased to 7, oddly timed with the 230 relic step. That's a step in the wrong direction.
SE needs to know that where they had a chance to do better, they didn't.

Do you want a better experience? Speak up. If not, or if you're content with doing this again in 4.0 with even higher numbers or somehow worse requirements, feel free to roll over and accept what you're given. I won't.

[kuma_aus]

I actually PREFER to be challenged than handed a lame grind. (Which this is)

Nidhogg EX would like to say hi. Nice to know you don't like the 210 step in the game. Not everything in the game needs to cater to your likes and dislikes. There are people who hate crafting. Should crafting be changed so that it accommodates these people? There are people who hate tanking. Should tanking be changed to suit these people?

You want a challenge, go do Nidhogg EX. You want an even bigger challenge? With your Nidhogg EX weapon, go do M4S.

[itti18]

Then why keep complaining about it? If you dislike it, then the relic is obviously not designed for you.

Don't want to grind, don't want to do hard content = Get Lore Weapon.
Don't want to grind, don't want to do hard content and don't want to wait weeks of lockout = Get Augmented Esoterics Weapon.
Don't want to grind, want to do hard content = Get Nidhogg Weapon.
Don't want to grind, want to do very hard content = Get Alexander Weapon.
Don't mind grinding or are fine with slowly working on getting the weapon as you play the game normally = Relic.

+1

i actually like the relic grind , always nice to have a hard to achieve goal

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

. . .always nice to have a hard to achieve goal

You know, I felt the same way with finally clearing Titan HM and getting my original bow, the Extremes, and with T5, 9, and 13.

Mind you, I know many who both raided and worked on relics, and more power to them. It's fair to say that it's all a matter of perception. Some feel it's worth the time invested. Some don't. Some are even in between or undecided. I've stated my stance on it as well as some of the more easily glossed over details/truths about it, but I definitely want to combat the idea that people who complain simply want it handed to them. They could nerf it all tomorrow and I'd still opt out. So let's please not approach this with the mindset of "Well I like it/don't mind it, so it's fine. You just want things handed to you."

Nidhogg EX would like to say hi. Nice to know you don't like the 210 step in the game. Not everything in the game needs to cater to your likes and dislikes. There are people who hate crafting. Should crafting be changed so that it accommodates these people? There are people who hate tanking. Should tanking be changed to suit these people?

You want a challenge, go do Nidhogg EX. You want an even bigger challenge? With your Nidhogg EX weapon, go do M4S.

Unfortunately, this response is pretty par for the course. "Fine! Go do hard stuff!" Sure! I would absolutely love to. Win or lose, I do feel it's time better spent, and that's just me personally. BUT! Does that mean the 210 step is perfectly fine as is? Or any of it for that matter? No. And I have no issue speaking up about it. Obviously, many will agree and disagree with points made. But are you to tell me that those who have issue with it simply don't deserve to speak up about it because they, by default, "just want things handed to them"? I mean really, is THAT what you're saying?

And please, don't argue points like "Not everything has to cater to you! " I like to raid and PvP. Possibly some of the most unpopular content in the game. Just don't even. Whether it caters to anyone or not, if there are glaring issues with it (and I'm not the only one saying it, believe me), why shouldn't someone speak up about it?

You like the relic quest as it is. Good for you. I don't. I'm not here just to rain on the parade at all. No. I see issues with it, most of all, an example of where SE simply chose to settle for par when they could've done better. If I say nothing, and anyone else who sees it says nothing, that's basically saying "This is fine."

It's not. It never will be.