The question for Monday: Why do you need your clear asap?

[Archaell]

Why are people so much obsessed with getting their clears as soon as possible?

I finally got some time to work on the Nidhogg Ex and basically spent whole weekend doing training parties on Ragnarok. Everything was great, got many times to the fang phase with fresh groups, till… till I tried to make a party for the adds training specifically. There isn’t much to train there if people can live till that point, but practice is always good. Suddenly problems started. People were failing as much as fresh training groups during the start of the fight if not even more, people were getting more irritated and leaving before the timer finished. The attitude changed a lot while there being only a tiny little difference in the “progression”. Why?

Well I know why. Because suddenly everyone was expected to reach the point of training without messing up too much, and people of course were doing a lot of mistakes – making it obvious they either did not practice enough or even tried the fight before. Why?

Why do people join parties beyond their real experience?

“I got to the phase 5 once, so clearly I mastered all the previous phases!”

Really? I saw this attitude several times. People getting to the fang phase once and suddenly being too good for training the previous parts.

“Fang phase training. Two wipes before that = disband!”

And then this person died in the first phase when they joined our add group. Well at least they realised that some more training was needed I guess. ^^

This attitude is baffling. Why can’t people learn a part of the fight before moving up, instead of pushing it as much as possible to move up?

It just leads to pointless frustration and disbands.

Someone starts training party for towers etc., and then the group makes the same (sometimes even less) progression as I am doing with new groups. How? I am teaching the fight to completely new people yet my groups reach the same point eventually as their parties before disbanding. Of course it takes more time, coz they disband after a wipe or two, but still…

Wouldn’t it be much better if everyone could join the party for the certain phase and actually get there to practice it because all the party members practiced enough the previous ones?

It would lead to much better experience and eventually faster progression for everyone in my opinion.


Let’s end this opening post with last question(s):

What do you think would motivate people to join the “correct groups” for them?

The community? Some adjustments to PF? New features? Etc. etc.

All comments are welcome.

[Fynlar]

Because after a while, very few people tolerate "learning" groups anymore (as in, you'll have a hard time getting anyone except the truly altruistic people to join), and if you haven't gotten at least one clear you basically become like Pig-Pen, constantly surrounded by that "100 esos" dirt cloud that causes everyone to leave duty because no one wants to be around that.

[MeiUshu]

snip.

is so true...I wish I could join a Learning party but all request already that people know the fight up to this or that point when I am totally completely knew to the fight so ...right now is impossible for me to do any of the higher Ex (as I call them). Idealy I am with OP on this, but unfortunately, so rare to find that ...well impossible is more like it.

Dying is part of a Learning curve but for some reasons, people are all born with insta knowledge...and cant tolerate that others are not...go and figure.

As for motivation ? that the group sticks together from start to end of the timer, no matter how many death or stuff....but this is utopy.

No matter the amount of motivation(in this case reward) will be of any good, the only thing that could make a difference is change of mentality from players, but that is impossible in a game where players dont play as a group but solo in a group.

[Phireblast]

Because after a while, very few people tolerate "learning" groups anymore (as in, you'll have a hard time getting anyone except the truly altruistic people to join), and if you haven't gotten at least one clear you basically become like Pig-Pen, constantly surrounded by that "100 esos" dirt cloud that causes everyone to leave duty because no one wants to be around that.

This here. If you don't hop on content quickly in this game, you're getting left behind. Am I okay with this? No. But that's how it works.

[Archaell]

Big portion of the people around me is always in a rush to get the new content de-bonused out of the fear to play with the “bad players” and then they complain that farm parties can’t even get through the first half of the fight…

Well of course, because the current bonus system is working well with carrying. Not to mention people jumping in the farm parties when they get one lucky clear.

“Clear party – if we clear farm; two wipes disband/kick”

Since when is one clear enough to get the content on farm? Clearing something once is in no way same as clearing it consistently.

The good thing about learning parties is that you can start your own for whatever you want.

The bad thing that more and more players want “carry a friend two fails kick know 100%” parties instead of practicing the fight so it takes longer to fill up, and those who do join sometimes try to skip phases they haven’t practiced enough leading to wipes in these.

The worst about this is teaching a group fight till some point just to having it disbanded and then starting over with a new one. Idk, how to deal with this. I have been told that I should start kicking the “failing” players but that seems harsh.

Kinda wish more people were honest and trying to deserve their clears. It would make content much more enjoyable.

[LineageRazor]

is so true...I wish I could join a Learning party but all request already that people know the fight up to this or that point when I am totally completely knew to the fight so ...right now is impossible for me to do any of the higher Ex (as I call them). Idealy I am with OP on this, but unfortunately, so rare to find that ...well impossible is more like it.

Rare to FIND, perhaps - so make one! These Party Finder parties don't just spring up out of nowhere. They occur when someone finally buckles down and makes one. Be that person!

You are not alone. There are many people in your position, interested in learning the earlier phases and frustrated by the fact that no one makes parties to learn the early phases. If you build it, they will come!

[Werhusky]

I cleared Niddy in 2 trainings sessions in a PUG.
Wednesday joined a training without further description so thought I could join. We wiped twice early and party lead disbanded, so made my own "no XP needed we wipe to learn bring patience". After 3 timers and a lot of replacements cause people needed to leave we got the last half hour reliable past Fang and Claw and to first Akh Morn even if more death than alive.
Thursday one of the tanks PFed last phase training. I joined, so did 2 others of the team from day before. We wiped 4-5 times Fang and claw and 4 people ragequit (those that weren't in the team the day before) we re-pfed and after 2-3 replacements again (3hrs later I admit) due to time issues we got through the full rotation and kept going for another 1,5 hrs until we cleared.


Mayn people though have
a) not the will to stay that long in the same team wiping and training
b) not the knowledge how good they really are with the mechanics, how comfortable

I noticed that a few times and it has its climax in people that are new to a fight and tell the XP people how to handle stuff.
Also those that point fingers are an issue and the patience on a early wipe due to derp/focus/whatever reason is lowered the further into a fight you are.
I don't think the majority is "lieing" about their progress rather lack the raidawareness to adjust to teams and new situations.

Considering I cleared Sephi after a long day; many people didn't know basics of the last phase so had hours of wipes in my bones. A friend made a kill group and suddenly we had helaers right instead of left whet I had trained the whole time and my brain wasn't able to process the new situation. I wiped them for a timer due to running wrong way with the Earth Shaker, then told them about my problem. We switched the positions and cleared in 2 pulls lol

[Jas710]

Rare to FIND, perhaps - so make one! These Party Finder parties don't just spring up out of nowhere. They occur when someone finally buckles down and makes one. Be that person!

You are not alone. There are many people in your position, interested in learning the earlier phases and frustrated by the fact that no one makes parties to learn the early phases. If you build it, they will come!

Yep. To reiterate, the PF is not only a tool that you can use for joining, but also for POSTING YOUR OWN DAMN LEARNING PARTIES. Just be clear in your descriptions on what you expect prospective players to expect (I.e. "practice", "learning", "expect multiple attempts", "impatient people gtfo", etc), and you're good to go!

[Leigaon]

Why are people so much obsessed with getting their clears as soon as possible?

People by nature want to get rewards and something done asap. Look at other things, a new movie, game, CD..anything, people are usually the first to get it at midnight. They want to be worlds first some of them or have very little control on enjoying it. They get more enjoyment out of saying to their friends "yeah I'm already done, are you?" ego buff! I'm guilty of it sometimes, we all are.

This isn't a game where we need to rush. We have 3 months of a buffer and even though you're given the opportunity to do everything, you don't need to. They rush, over play and get upset over little things. Then they expect people to be on par with them with these things. A lot of people will start with "Well I got through this phase first try, I never had any issues" yes..you didn't. That doesn't mean the other people won't. If we were all like you, there would be no worries. They stay set in that mindset of since they didn't have a problem it's unacceptable for others to.

People, I think get into parties beyond their experience and screw up because they were either carried or maybe they're just worn out. Sometimes it is okay to put down the controller, step back to relax and come back at it stronger in a right frame of mind.

There is nothing that can correct this, except people changing.

[Werhusky]

People naturally are just in a rush to clear things asap....it isn't a flaw of FFXIV, it's a flaw of the users in a sense that...

I always like stuff I can ram my head into solo without my static (no loot lockout, clearable in PUG without voiceover) and I had 3 days after patch off for another reason anyway o.o
For me its fun and an achievement.