"Who, WHAT are you?" *main story spoilers*

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Or maybe the Ascians are still stupid enough to think we will defect to their side like the Warriors of Darkness had. After all, mr white robe (forget me spelling his name) keeps insisting that we'd see eye to eye if we "knew the truth", yet they never tell us jack squat.

[Anonymoose]

has there been any documented instances in which an Ascian orchestrates events which directly result in a confirmed death of an echo-user

Does the Calamity count? Lahabrea stood on a cliff laughing while most of the Path of the Twelve died.

He also teleported Livia into the Waking Sands; she got a few.

[SaitoHikari]

What about the Isle of Val?

Krile survived. Unless there are other Echo users on the isle that I'm not aware of? Incidentally, there's probably another (far more plausible) reason why the Ascians don't try to kill us off personally as soon as possible. They probably know Hydaleyn is going to go to great lengths to protect her Echo-users if possible, so they'll be trying to keep baiting out her powers through repeated conflict with them.

Our end goal is to find a permanent way to defeat the Ascians, which wasn't possible until very recently. Their goal is simply to see their own plans come to fruition, so us defeating them wouldn't matter much thanks to the whole immortality thing. Until we figured out we could kill them, the Ascians probably figured we were better alive than dead, thinking they could keep manipulating us into weakening Hydaleyn further and/or eventually get us to convert to their side.

(If you want to go a step further, each time we revive after losing a fight could be Hydaleyn rewinding reality to give us another chance, because what other option does she even have at this point?)

EDIT: I need to remember there really were a lot of unnamed Echo users out there... Which kind of throws out the 'each Echo user possesses a shard of Zodiark' theory, unless the Ascians don't give a damn about the lesser Echo users at this point, or it's really that the Blessing of Light is a shard and the Echo isn't.

[Vexander]

About Krile surviving... I have a sneaking feeling it wasn't the Ascians responsible for the Isle of Val so much as the Bibliothecs. The Students of Baldesion were staunch supporters of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, and the Bibliothecs are strongly against Sharlayan knowledge being used and/or falling into the hands of foreigners. The continued efforts of the Scions would probably be the most significant thorn in the side of the Bibliothecs. If they removed the Isle of Val, and the Students with it, it could've been as part of a plot to weaken the Scions and make them come home.

As for why Krile's survival makes me think of the Bibliothecs, my mind simply went to the recent Triple Triad content (3.3), where we learn Kidibus removed the powerful Sharlayan Archmage Ward in the Aetherochemical Research Facility as bait for the Legatus, and was only able to do so due to possessing the Echo. If the Echo can undo Sharlayan Archmage level magic, and we know Krile survived because of the Echo, it creates a correlation.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

But didn't they say there was magicks used at the island that was similar to Ultima? Or am I getting that mixed up?

[myahele]

Yeah, it was said that a energy similar to Ultima sense prior to/ after the Isle's disappearance.

Also, wasn't it said that other scholars who were researching the Rejoining/ Dimension collapse also disappeared at the time of Val's disappearance, yet were not in the Isle itself?

Maybe the WoL has "special" protection, yet other echo users don't? Nabriales wanted to kill Minfilia, but couldn't due to Elidibus orders

[PArcher]

But didn't they say there was magicks used at the island that was similar to Ultima? Or am I getting that mixed up?

Yes, it was an Ultima-like spell, which points to Ascian involvement. Even more-so that the sole survivor only did so (and even then, barely) because she had the Blessing and a Crystal.

[Berethos]

I'd thought that Nabriales pretty much confirms it when stealing Tupsimati and making off with Minfilia...

Nabriales - "Unlike the others, I am not given to waiting. I shall take that staff and bring about the next Rejoining."
Minfilia - "...Rejoining? Then it was your doing! The Isle of Val, the scholars - all of it!"

And...he never acknowledges it, one way or the other. He just does it little teleport shift thing behind her again and starts on about taking the staff.

So oddly enough, the other knowledge about it being an Ultima-like spell is more confirmation than the direct accusation, unless we're supposed to take Minfilia's conclusion as the right one (which I'm guessing it is, but from an in-universe perspective it's still a potentially fallible character reaching a potentially incorrect conclusion).

[Tenkuu]

Because Lahabrea and Igeyorhm were using the Echo to violate Hydaelyn's laws in the first place...

... then we beat the shit outta the Ascian Prime...

So you're saying the power of their Echo got weaker?

We know nothing of real value about the Warriors of Darkness beyond one of their names (and we don't even know that in-story).

Morningstar1337's post reminded me that Y'shtola does comment on the Warriors of Darkness in 3.1, and in the Japanese version, as Fenral translated it in another thread, says:

感じたことのないエーテルね。テンパードにされているような感じはしないけれど……。
It's not like any aether I've felt before, but I don't get the feeling that he's been tempered...

So we do have at least some indication that Y'shtola considers them to be very strange and dangerous. Though in the Japanese version she omits her warning, her tone itself is cautious. We can imagine that the aether of a (former) Warrior of Light would change and feel so strange if he'd become a power hungry creature.

I'm hesitant to speculate about the Auracite because, unlike the people from lil' White's tale, we do not use it to trap and keep aetherial beings as aether batteries. That sounds suspiciously like what the Allagans did and the Garleans are trying to do... a possible source for a Kefkaesque descent into madness for Regula or Varis? Hmm...

So there are various types of Auracite, most likely, and the one we're using is a temporary variant. If not that, perhaps there are simply more advanced methods of using it and we just don't know about them. The thing is, unless Dalamud was made of, or at least comprised *some* Auracite, the Allagans seem to have used a different material and/or technology to trap Primals.

Before you are saying I am using this disparagingly, I would explain you that it is essentially what I did that entire paragraph.

First of all, I appreciate that. Second, I'm not exactly well versed in most movies (lack of interest), so I'm not even sure what that's from. Third, well, I was agreeing with you, just sort of expounding on it. Unless you feel that I just repeated what you were saying?

[Tenkuu]

At least once, the Ascians point out that it's been "a long time" since a there was a true "Warrior of Light". I was curious if perhaps Elidibus doesn't bother making an appearance, otherwise, but I couldn't find anything beyond the few scant mentions. /shrug

Lahabrea was the very first to mention it in Toto-Rak, in every version but the English one, apparently. I assume you know that though. You can see in this video if not.

I wonder how much of that had to do with Midgardsormr's actions and how much has to do with something we learn a bit later - that Hydaelyn has become incredibly weak, so much so that she needs Minfilia to even manifest properly to communicate with us in her own realm.

Midgarsormr's sealing of the Blessing was essentially ensuring that no more of Hydaelyn's power leaked down to us. He used it less as a test to us and more as a way to stop Hydaelyn from losing any more power from the little she had left. Either way, Lahabrea had already commented on how weakened Hydaelyn was as early as Praetorium.

This is a distinction that I have noticed: Hydaelyn always refers to us as their "Beloved" son/daughter, but when others talk about our special relationship with the crystal they tend to do it in terms of Mistress and servant-- even Midgardsomr who has very likely encountered WoLs before and has his own past with Hydaelyn. We could just be her child in the way all life comes from her (Minfilla calls Hydaelyn mother and frequently asks her to protect all her children) but the difference in phrasing has always struck me as a bit odd. I think the Ascians all call us "servant" as well, but since Aether is down at the moment I can't check.

I think it worthy of noting that in most cutscenes, where Hydaelyn's English dialogue is more along the lines of calling us a son/daughter, the Japanese version instead has her calling us her the holders of the crystals of Light. When possessing Minfilia as her Voice, Hydaelyn uses the term 子ら (children), but this is one of the few times where this is the case. In general, the relationships in the Japanese version tend to be more formally expressed: the Scions use "san" when referring to Tataru, and she when referring to them; similarly, the Scions use "sama" when referring to either Alphinaud or Alisaie (Tataru does this too), though they have no formalities amongst each other. Your character is also given titles depending on who's talking to them: "san" from most people, "dono" from others, those who don't know us tend to call us "eiyuu" (hero) or Warrior of Light and attach an honorary to that, and there are probably a few others. Comparatively, the dialogue itself in Japanese isn't afraid to offend your character and in fact is more in line with some of the reactions we are shown to have. I cite Thancred's rather casual (bordering on the offensive) tone in the Japanese, in most of his dialogue, as one of the biggest differences from the English version. As for the Ascians, they call us "hikari no shito", disciples of Light, just as we (and even Alphinaud in his self-deprecating monologue at the end of 2.55) call them "yami no shito", disciples of Darkness.