Alienation of Dedicated and Skilled players

[Caelum_Dragguell]

With the way that FFXIV has been progressing, it seems as though the Development team has no plans to make the game have more depth other than being a game people log into for a couple hours here and there to do arbitrary tasks. I know a decent number of players who have quit stating they will not return until the team drops this dumb vertical progression and adds more interesting stats that alter gameplay.

Players such as myself feel alienated in this game because it no longer rewards longtime players for pouring hours into it. Instead we get little to no reward for doing so, the gameplay remains formulaic and shallow, and the vast majority of the community turns a blind eye towards these factors and instead looks towards the Colosseum spectacles of housing and glamours. I understand that such things can be fun for a while but Glamour serves a very blatant and superficial purpose.

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Late edit: It seems like a lot of people think I meant specifically horizontal progression when I said this. That's not the case. up until this edit I don't believe I even once directly mentioned it or referenced it. From what I wrote, I was talking about just adding more interesting status' and types of content to the game rather than the same ol' same ol'.
Again... more interesting stat diversity+different more varied types of content to get items etc =/= Me specifically wanting horizontal progression.

[Caelum_Dragguell]

MMO's are meant to reward time and effort and skill put into the world. As a passionate longtime player of this game (since beta's) I really want to love the game in its current state but I can't. It's turning into a game more focused on Dress up simulation rather than an immersive world that rewards time and effort.

TL;DR We need a change to Itemization, gameplay mechanics, and difficulty. We're burnt out and screaming on the inside. Please listen to the voice of the other half

[Caelum_Dragguell]

On another note it's gotten so bad as to make me play FFXI as I view it to have way more depth than FFXIV in its current state. For those who have played FFXI I'm sure many of you understand how I'm feeling at this stage and I hope you will help the development team see they need a change

[Silica-chan]

Glamour is the true endgame for me and probably the only thing next to the story that keeps me playing this game.

Overcoming difficult parts of a game is not the only way to have fun just saying.

[Welsper59]

On another note it's gotten so bad as to make me play FFXI as I view it to have way more depth than FFXIV in its current state. For those who have played FFXI I'm sure many of you understand how I'm feeling at this stage and I hope you will help the development team see they need a change

That's because it does have way more depth. It has 14 years of content lol. Just because it's old, doesn't mean it isn't worth your time if it offers what you want. That'd be like looking back at FFVI or Chrono Trigger or other classic Square Soft games (Mario RPG included), and it's devalued just because of its age lol. XI is still a full-fledged game and one that is different from XIV. Perhaps XI, which is still being updated (now) monthly, is more to your liking than XIV in general. I still sub to it and play lol.

You don't have to put yourself in a position that you have to love everything from SE, nor does SE have to subject themselves to creating things that you like but they don't care to do. It's okay to not like this game anymore. While I do agree vehemently about itemization change and so on, it's not a big deal to not enjoy the game anymore. It happens and we move on. If you do, then feel free to come on back if you miss it or things change. These days, there's so many other games to play that you're going to find something else that actually does cater to your wants. I never cared much for free-build/survival type of games like Minecraft, but I absolutely love Subnautica, despite it still being an Early Access title.

[Lorielle]

SNIPPY

It's not even about XI having 14 years of content(that's just story talking by the way. If you even knew how XI gotten past Abyssea, you'd know it went downhill). It's just the fact that Vanadiel was far more immersive because nothing was instant. You had to -WORK- for whatever your goal was. Walking to one place to another. Completing a specific mission. Getting your subjob, etc. Then there was Horizontal Progression which made gear relevant for a Loooooooong time. Even if it wasn't it had updates to make it stay relevant(Dynamis Relics). XIV on its own is just. Unlock Job, Level to max and then...Raid? If you're even into that. Nothing is challenging you anymore other than find 7 other competent players to complete a duty. That Relic you grinded many hours for? Just energy for your next relic step or Glamour!

We get that Yoshi is catering to the louder voice because it's money. It's why we have a Cash Shop. It's why things get nerfed. It's why we have casuals that don't know what rotations are. It's why we have Stone, Sky, Sea. These things could have been learned from out the gate if they actually challenged us out the gate, but they don't. Instead we have to make X player suffer to teach X player how to do what. It's one thing to mentor a newbie, it's another thing to teach someone what to do at level 60.

[Ilenya]

...It's why we have Stone, Sky, Sea...

Isn't that entirely so people could practice rotations in a way that both allows you to learn them while giving you a goal towards pushing for? I am thinking the correct thing, right? Are you saying everyone should only learn rotations against end-game things where, depending on the fight, you can't learn it on the fly?

Just like Heavensword replaced all of the hard work/Gil spent on crafting gear with lvl 51.

Now this is just not true at all. Yes, the gear did get replaced, but the better your gear was at the end of 2.55 the longer it took for a replacement to come up.

[Welsper59]

It's not even about XI having 14 years of content(that's just story talking by the way. If you even knew how XI gotten past Abyssea, you'd know it went downhill). It's just the fact that Vanadiel was far more immersive because nothing was instant. You had to -WORK- for whatever your goal was. Walking to one place to another. Completing a specific mission. Getting your subjob, etc. Then there was Horizontal Progression which made gear relevant for a Loooooooong time. Even if it wasn't it had updates to make it stay relevant(Dynamis Relics). XIV on its own is just. Unlock Job, Level to max and then...Raid? If you're even into that. Nothing is challenging you anymore other than find 7 other competent players to complete a duty. That Relic you grinded many hours for? Just energy for your next relic step or Glamour!

We get that Yoshi is catering to the louder voice because it's money. It's why we have a Cash Shop. It's why things get nerfed. It's why we have casuals that don't know what rotations are. It's why we have Stone, Sky, Sea. These things could have been learned from out the gate if they actually challenged us out the gate, but they don't. Instead we have to make X player suffer to teach X player how to do what. It's one thing to mentor a newbie, it's another thing to teach someone what to do at level 60.

Abyssea was like 6 or 7 years into the game. There was QUITE A LOT of stuff introduced from launch till then, so it's not just story. Even if it's faceroll now, it's still stuff you can go do for the hell of it, if you choose to... and believe it or not, people do go to sky still for various reasons, like to level or to spawn the NMs because they happened upon the items through various means. All of the stuff you mentioned was part of its 14 years of content, which while some have gone wayward, like subjob items, the rest of it is still there. Besides that, story is still a significant part of the game... way more than it is in XIV, even though most of it is optional in XI.

Abyssea wasn't that bad, although it did change the game a lot, as far as groups went. They had to start changing the game though, since most people weren't exactly thrilled with the punishing nature and time requirements XI become infamous for. It's just the way the market went. Hence, they evolved to where they are now. Vastly different and very solo heavy, minus the majority of highest tier endgame fights, but still a good game if you like the ease... you just lose a lot of the forced grouping. Truth be told though, with it being this way, it really isn't all that different than any other MMO when playing with others. You gotta go out of your way to meet and befriend people, as they won't magically be friends with you if you don't engage in conversation lol.

Just so you know though, gating us to needing to do something before we can access stuff DOES NOT promote good players. There were tons of terrible players that made it past Maat in XI, and that ****er was hailed as one of the biggest challenges the game offered for a period of time. People choose to be terrible because they're either lazy, ignorant (not a bad word) of what to do, and/or playing in a way that suits them (i.e. wanting to experience something firsthand). No one learns endgame naturally and instantly. Not everyone understands the concept that endgame can change the way you do things (e.g. BRD). Short of them literally making every single obstacle you face in the game be equivalent in difficulty as a Savage mode progression raid, you're not going to only meet great players as you progress... hell, you'd probably not meet enough to make a raid before you'd end up quitting because the game feels "dead" lol. That Savage comment sounds stupid right? Well for what you're saying should be the case, it shouldn't sound stupid, because that's the only way you'll force players to be good when they hit 60 or endgame. If you dumb it down at all, it'll be far more possible for a bad player to slip through the cracks.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

On another note it's gotten so bad as to make me play FFXI as I view it to have way more depth than FFXIV in its current state. For those who have played FFXI I'm sure many of you understand how I'm feeling at this stage and I hope you will help the development team see they need a change

No I don't understand how you feel and yes I played FFXI for 11/12 years. I feel in the amount of time I play 14 and I put in a lot of hours I get way more done. No shouting for partys or shouting to build partys for hours. I think I actually spent more time on there shouting for stuff than actually getting stuff done.

I sort of miss haste etc on gear and buffs to abilities, but then I remember how I had multiple gear sets. The main thing I miss is having more open world stuff and since doing Aquapolis that has sort of appeased me for now. Hopefully Diadem will get some love and Deep Dungeon proves successful I will be happy.

[Blazer]

On another note it's gotten so bad as to make me play FFXI as I view it to have way more depth than FFXIV in its current state. For those who have played FFXI I'm sure many of you understand how I'm feeling at this stage and I hope you will help the development team see they need a change

Honestly FFXI has always had more depth, this is nothing new (even when it was XIV's age, XI still had much much more depth).

But, in defense of XIV, it's really hard to have the depth you're looking for when the game doesn't contain core XI mechanics like "gear-swapping", stat based damage (X move is affected by Y stat), and elemental/physical damage resistances. "Gear-swapping" is probably the greatest true endgame element any game has ever seen and it keeps 10+ year old content relevant.

And as someone who just also resubbed to XI before returning to XIV after 7 months, it's not going to happen. The game is set in its way. All (but a very few) of my XI friends have given up on the game awhile ago. It's the exact same formula as prior to HW, and will most likely be the same formula as 4.0.

Think of XIV like a really thin XL pizza. It's very large, but very thin. Most people will fill up, but some are just hungry for something much thicker.