House flipping is 100% confirmed against ToS, send vegetable naysayers to this thread

[Myon88]

It's a great idea, just not a palatable one. People just tend to be irrational when it comes to the concept of taxation.

Now that I think about it more, land is actually the one asset in this game that doesn't depreciate at all, which is partly why it's so lucrative. With gear for example, you get taxed via repairs (even though the actual amount is inconsequential), and it depreciates with every new patch forcing you to gear up again and purchase new materia. Housing on the other hand is fixed in quantity so it's value never decreases, it has no upkeep so you pretty much just need to buy it once and you 'win' forever.

I do not see unlimited housing becoming a reality in the conceivable future. With how much server capacity seems to be an issue, I think it's naive to expect otherwise.

[MayleeMorningstar]

It's a great idea, just not a palatable one. People just tend to be irrational when it comes to the concept of taxation.

You can't compare real-life taxation to in-game tax. In RL, taxes are needed to keep our society moving. Everything from government jobs and administration, schools, welfare, roads and what have you. In-game taxes go nowhere, it's just a gil sink. Adding that to housing is punishment, pure and simple. Those taxes would punish the poor and would be pocket change to the rich, making houses even more of a status symbol than they are now.

[StouterTaru]

Housing on the other hand is fixed in quantity so it's value never decreases, it has no upkeep so you pretty much just need to buy it once and you 'win' forever.

If you want to use it as a glamour, then yes. It's like a minion or mount, or that coat you want your armor to look like, buy it once and you win forever.

However, 90% of the things people want a house for have persistent costs.

[Solarra]

Housing tax:

It's a great idea

Sorry, I don't agree.
My FC just moved to a Large house in the Goblet. We busted a gut to get the gil together, we did the decent thing and simply relinquished our old plot when we moved, and now you want to slap a recurring charge on us! We already pay our subs, we already have to enter the property regularly to keep it. That should be enough.

Some points for you to consider

- The extra wards appear to have solved the housing shortage on smaller servers. We have no neighbours at all right now, even though I'm often in a queue to log into the game.
I don't want more disincentives to ownership added because I would like to see those plots occupied.

- This is going to penalise smaller FCs and is going to put huge pressure on active players if others in their company take a break.
Games go through lulls, punishing FC members who remain active by making them pay their share of the tax as well as the inactive players' share, if they want to keep the company house and their rooms, is going to cause drama and resentment.

- It will encourage RMT (again something that is not a major issue on some of the smaller servers, let's keep it that way).

- It might not have any significant effect on the number of plots available. Reclamation only had a temporary effect on Zodiark.

- It will be regressive, meaning new players and poorer players will be hit hardest by the recurring charge.

- It will drive up demand for small houses making them more attractive to players and FCs who could afford a larger house but wish to avoid tax. This will make it harder for new and poorer players to get a home.

- It will probably have no effect whatsoever on house flipping and may even encourage it.
If you know you will have to pay tax, then charging another player to relinquish so you have enough gil in the bank to cover it makes sense.


Many people have suggested positive measures to ease the crisis on the larger servers

- Allow alts to share houses.

- Restrict the number of plots an individual can own to one personal and one FC House.

- Make some provision for gardening and Choco training and dyeing for people who buy apartments, so buying an apartment becomes a more attractive option.


I'd prefer to see any of these implemented rather than a 'tax. Taking the fun out of housing and punishing people who have been lucky enough to get a home might make people who can't get a house now feel a little better, but is not good for the game long-term.

[Myon88]

Gil sinks have a purpose, they help keep inflation in check, as new gil is constantly being generated through gameplay every day. If you do a roulette and get paid 10,000 gil by the game, that's new money being created that didn't exist in circulation before that. That is partly why things like repair costs, MB taxes, and mechanics like items binding to you exist in this game.

W.r.t price, it's not like the current prices don't already punish poorer players anyway, that's the the economic reality. In fact, by scaling with the price of the plot they punish the rich more by definition. If you're 'rich' enough to fork out the 37.5 million for a large, then finding another 2 million (5%) a month should be peanuts to you. Most people in that bracket tend to be self-sustaining when it comes to wealth generation anyway, since they're typically established crafters and the like.

And like I said, it'll put pressure on the larger plots to be owned by FCs because they will have a far easier time pooling money to pay for upkeep. Which is good because I'd rather a large house go to an FC with 100 people than a single person. Now of course, just like real life, if you can afford it by yourself then go wild.

But most importantly it will hit hardest the people who only use houses as glorified tropies. The average player should have no trouble with upkeep through normal gameplay, but for someone who owns 8 houses just for vanity, or someone who only logs in once a month - well, they might end up thinking twice about whether they're really making the best use of a really scarce resource.

However, 90% of the things people want a house for have persistent costs.

I'm not sure I follow, what persistent costs do houses have? You have to buy furniture, yes, but that's a one time purchase similar to buying a new barding or glamour piece for your collection. And it's a luxury, it's only limited by your wants, and after the initial decorating spree most peoples houses will be 'done' and the rate of new purchases will trickle down.

Gardening on the other hand actually makes you money, which is one reason why people do want houses (or access to the garden in their FC house).

[drvr]

You seem quite focused on punishing house owners. Do you want to talk about it?

[Myon88]

You seem quite focused on punishing house owners. Do you want to talk about it?

I own a house myself, and I for one would be happy to pay for upkeep every month. My neighbourhood on the other hand would be much improved if there were incentives for it to be owned by people with an active interest in the game. I'd see more people running around the place for one, which is a social benefit, instead of empty yards because their owners are squatters sitting on the plot and trying to flip it.

So you see it's really quite simple. I hope I conveyed that to you clearly enough for you to understand.

[OliviaJ]

I own a house myself, and I for one would be happy to pay for upkeep every month. My neighbourhood on the other hand would be much improved if there were incentives for it to be owned by people with an active interest in the game. I'd see more people running around the place for one, which is a social benefit, instead of empty yards because their owners are squatters sitting on the plot and trying to flip it.

So you see it's really quite simple. I hope I conveyed that to you clearly enough for you to understand.

Absolutely this. I'm waiting for that timer to start again. Tired of being alone in my ward and it's obvious there are people who just have trophies by that garden that's been empty for months. Keeping a garden going consistently can be a chore, but having one out there that hasn't had anything in it forever and never visiting...that is a sure sign of abandonment.

[Proxie]

Absolutely this. I'm waiting for that timer to start again. Tired of being alone in my ward and it's obvious there are people who just have trophies by that garden that's been empty for months. Keeping a garden going consistently can be a chore, but having one out there that hasn't had anything in it forever and never visiting...that is a sure sign of abandonment.

I don't even have plots in my garden.. oh nooooes! what kind of logic is that.. unused gardens must mean abandoned? =)

[Yuumei]

Gil sinks have a purpose, they help keep inflation in check, as new gil is constantly being generated through gameplay every day. If you do a roulette and get paid 10,000 gil by the game, that's new money being created that didn't exist in circulation before that. That is partly why things like repair costs, MB taxes, and mechanics like items binding to you exist in this game.

W.r.t price, it's not like the current prices don't already punish poorer players anyway, that's the the economic reality. In fact, by scaling with the price of the plot they punish the rich more by definition. If you're 'rich' enough to fork out the 37.5 million for a large, then finding another 2 million (5%) a month should be peanuts to you. Most people in that bracket tend to be self-sustaining when it comes to wealth generation anyway, since they're typically established crafters and the like.

And like I said, it'll put pressure on the larger plots to be owned by FCs because they will have a far easier time pooling money to pay for upkeep. Which is good because I'd rather a large house go to an FC with 100 people than a single person. Now of course, just like real life, if you can afford it by yourself then go wild.

But most importantly it will hit hardest the people who only use houses as glorified tropies. The average player should have no trouble with upkeep through normal gameplay, but for someone who owns 8 houses just for vanity, or someone who only logs in once a month - well, they might end up thinking twice about whether they're really making the best use of a really scarce resource.

I own a house myself, and I for one would be happy to pay for upkeep every month. My neighbourhood on the other hand would be much improved if there were incentives for it to be owned by people with an active interest in the game. I'd see more people running around the place for one, which is a social benefit, instead of empty yards because their owners are squatters sitting on the plot and trying to flip it.

So you see it's really quite simple. I hope I conveyed that to you clearly enough for you to understand.

Even a 5% land tax, Medium/Large house owners have to pay millions monthly - not everyone can magically churn that amount out constantly. (My land plot costed me 90mil, and 5% would be 4.5mil monthly.)
- If you + other house owners decide to seriously craft and sell products on the marketboard to pay the monthly upkeep, the prices will crash naturally, making it much harder for everyone to hit that target.
- The current ingame gil generation methods (roulette, challenge logs) is not enough to get you the avg 2-5million monthly to pay that upkeep. (for medium/large houses)
- It's no secret that with added trash drops and nerfing of drop rates + material IV becoming common, airship ventures are no longer that profitable, so sustaining tax via airships is not a given for now.
- Restricting larger housing to FCs with multiple players to help with the higher upkeep is obviously going to cause a riot, notwithstanding difficulty with recruitment + members quitting/going inactive.
- Lack of sufficient housing lots is already an issue. By forcing solo players towards small houses (for the manageable tax amount) will push the demand toward small lots and make it even harder for solo/casual players to own a house. Players are already upset with lack of equal access to housing. Your tax idea hinders their ability to own a house too, even if it is an unintended side effect.
- Even if you can earn enough to maintain upkeep, you are forced to continue crafting/selling/farming to keep the house. Once you burnout or are forced to take a break (financial,family,health,conscription etc), it all comes crashing down like a house of cards.

Already we house owners cannot unsub without fear of losing the house, should we be happy to accept this idea and grind gil like a job to keep it too? Nay!
Going by this logic, can SE force players to clear weekly raids or lose their assets as well? Too bad if your raid disband/can't progress or you can't find a pickup right?

If you wish to see vibrant housing sectors, then the first step is to go after the lot squatters + house flippers.
There are better ways to do it (such as 1 house PER ACCOUNT, making game events requiring interaction in housing wards to encourage players to visit/hangout at wards) versus your taxation idea, which punishes honest house owners together with those scrubs.