Early Pulling - Is it wrong?

[Kerii]

But he said he was doing it for fun. Not to interfere. Fun, as in the reason we play this game.

When I go after a hunt, it's usually for fun, yes.

I assume you're just being a troll, but you do realize that when you do some thing that ticks many people off and reply, "It was for fun, it's just a game bro." You are admitting that you're doing it on purpose, and will have a negative effect.

[Brian_]

Let me try to put this into a way that makes sense. I can deliberately buy a house in this game, just for fun, and that could interfere with the enjoyment of the game of another player.

Is me buying the house a violation of the ToS?

I don't think you have any argument. Numerous GMs and even Yoshida himself have clarified their stance on griefing over and over again.

Just recently they've said that reselling a house for an exorbitant mark-up is not okay. Previously GMs have said that doing so is an abuse of the existing system and a violation of the ToS.

If you haven't realized, their ToS is purposefully vague so that it can be applied to these situations.

It's the same as parsing. Yoshida has said that they have no problem with it as long as it's not used for harassment.

Again, they trust that players are civil in their behavior. Even if what you're doing falls into the gray-zone of legality, as long as it does not cross that line of civility, they generally let players handle it themselves.

[Kerii]

-snip-

That's kind of the problem we have now. They expect the community behave in civil ways, but many won't and don't care. If they won't get banned or more than a slap on the wrist they'll just keep doing it.

[Rubedo-II]

If it's a Hunt, then it's a free-for-all. It's annoying that there's someone doing an early pull, but there's not going to have a patience of a saint to wait you or Joe Blow-Schmo if you show up late. You have to be either committed or willing to show up on time, or always assume there's going to be an easy pull and there's nothing you can do about it.

If it's at a dungeon, then yes it is annoying as hell. Specially if you or somebody that's new, which you want to need to explain mechanics of boss to make sure everything runs smooth as silk, but then there's always some overzealous White Mage does an Aero or some DPS with an range attack while typing up during the first sentence which makes the newbies confused and more likely to die. It's a major pain in the ass as a Tank.

[FinaSel]

I would say think intention is irrelevant if the act itself is not against rules.

The act of interfering with other's enjoyment of the game IS against the rules.

Directly from the EULA:
"Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players"

[ElHeggunte]

Let me try to put this into a way that makes sense. I can deliberately buy a house in this game, just for fun, and that could interfere with the enjoyment of the game of another player.

Is me buying the house a violation of the ToS?

It would be against the ToS if you bought the house for the specific purpose of screwing someone else out of one. For example, let's say there's a player you didn't like named Milli Vanilli. One day you hear through the grapevine that he wants to buy the last available housing plot left on your server so you rush over and buy the plot out from under his nose so that he can't have it. You don't actually care about the plot, you just care about him not having it and that's the only reason you bought it. Buying the plot isn't against the ToS, but buying it with the sole purpose of keeping it from someone else could be considered griefing and that is against the ToS.

I would say think intention is irrelevant if the act itself is not against rules.

Intent is very relevant regardless of what the rules are. For example, there's no rule saying that I''m required to perform fight mechanics correctly, but if I'm going out of my way to do them wrong in order to wipe the raid I could be punished for it if someone reported me. The act of doing the mechanics wrong isn't against the rules, but doing it wrong for the sole purpose of fucking with my group is; I'm not in trouble for my actions, I'm in trouble for the intent behind my actions. "Early" pulling is no different. There's nothing textbook wrong with pulling a hunt whenever you want, but if you're pulling early for the sole purpose of giving other people a hard time and they can prove it you can be reported and punished for it.

[FinaSel]

When I go after a hunt, it's usually for fun, yes.

I'm sorry, but you're missing the point. Again.
What he is doing for fun isn't "going after a hunt".
What is he doing for fun is pulling the mob immediately before anyone else (except maybe his LS or FC) has the opportunity to get it.

This was already made clear in several posts by various people in this thread.

[Kewitt]

I don't do hunts because of the drama. But. It's Open world content. 1st come 1st server. If you have the means to kill it, You don't have any reason to wait beyond helping the community as a hole. That being said. Having to wait extra mins over and over as person are still coming. They are wasting your time.

[Alistaire]

Oh god...just realised...SE won't even act on reports of early pullers because they aren't violating ToS. You're worries hold no weight and will have zero impact on the right click report function. The GMs who review the reports are why we can have nice things.

Edit: To avoid making another post...I'm extremely thankful for the people on Mateus who are courteous and do wait for everyone to arrive before pulling. There are a few occasions here and there where there will be people who pull extremely fast and do not allow time for everyone to gather, but in my experience, and I hunt A LOT, at least 98% of the time people are very patient and respectful of everyone on Mateus.

You misunderstand, I'm not saying reporting "early pullers" will work, I'm saying SE will get flooded by idiots reporting "early pullers" with that feature so much they'll end up removing the feature. The new feature is the "nice thing" and people abusing it to report someone pulling a hunt mob is what will make it so we can't have that nice thing.

tl;dr we're on the same page.

The act of interfering with other's enjoyment of the game IS against the rules.

Directly from the EULA:
"Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players"

So if someone has an ugly or too sexy glamour I can say they're interfering with my enjoyment of the game? If someone undercuts me that's interference too! ...this is just getting silly.

[TankHunter678]

I was reminded of this thread today. Level 50 A rank hunt, gets put up in FC chat by my friend (at my recommendation).

So I go to where the hunt target is located on my drk. Teleported to closest aetherite, rode the 1 min trip on a porter. Waited for my other friend to arrive. She teleported to the aetherite and hopped on the porter. Disconnected about 10 seconds before arriving at destination. 2 FC mates show up. We wait for her character to log out. During this I ask one of my FC mates if they could come help this hunt. They are busy and cannot come help. The 2 FC mates leave. My friend's character finally logs out and my friend can login with the character and... has to do the entire porter ride all over again from the starting point.

When she finally arrives it takes some time for her to get down to where we are, then run partially back up to go revive our friend who spotted the mark target but got aggo'd onto and 1 shot. Ok so I am all ready to go. FC chat is silent, no info on anyone coming to help us with this. Shout chat is utterly silent. So I go and plunge to the boss and turn it away from my friends cause we have been waiting a good 10 min for anyone to come help.

All of a sudden its as if a 24 man raid group teleported onto our little 3 man party, the A rank was instantly down to 25% health in the space of ~5 seconds, aggro was ripped off me in an instant and I barely get 2 more hits in before its dead and someone in shout chat says someone early pulled before someone else announcing the next target is in Mor Dhona and the entire pack going and instantly teleporting away. Thankfully I got that first hit in, otherwise my party would of gotten nothing at all with how fast the hunt target died.