Early Pulling - Is it wrong?

[FinaSel]

So many people are saying there is no such thing as early pulling. Let me give you an example of something I saw in my server. You can tell me if this is early pulling or not.
(I've only seen an "early pull" twice, and this was one of them.)


Someone was in Western Thanalan, trying to spawn Zona Seeker (S rank). The person completed the trigger and shouted "Just caught Glimmerscale! Be on the lookout for the S rank mob!!
The mob had popped on the other side of the map. Another person found it and shouted the macro "<t> <pos>".

Soon people were flooding to Western Thanalan. The person who spawned the S rank shouted "I'm on my way. Please wait until I arrive."
The person who first saw the mob, however, was too impatient, and decided to pull it anyway. As soon as the mob died, the person who triggered it arrived. They were not able to get the kill and were justifiably very upset.

Now is this early pulling? Is the person who worked to spawn the mob just "s. out of luck" because they were too slow?

As some other people say, it is important to be considerate to others and wait at least a couple of minutes. Better yet, announce the start time if you are the discoverer and at LEAST wait for the person / group that spawned the mob.

Frankly, I'm appalled by the attitude that people think it's okay to just pull whatever as soon as you / your group only is ready.
What ever happened to caring about others and working together to accomplish a common goal? Judging by the overall attitude toward hunts (and a lot of the other threads I've seen on this forum) it seems like there are too many people in your servers who have a "It's all about me" mentality and not "We should think about the other people around us."

What causes people to think that way? (Actually a genuine question because I really want to know.)

[revonine]

Reading this thread has made me realise that common courtesy has flown out the window with a lot people

It's literally just this. And I swear this thread is mimicking shout chat after every hunt. "wait x minutes". "x group found it so they can kill it whenever they want". " Don't blame me it's SE fault for designing it this way"
Has the act of courtesy completely lost on people?

[MilesSaintboroguh]

words

Yes you will get those who pull as soon as they see it, but some DO wait for a few minutes for others to get in. But as I said before, you wait a bit, then others will ask for you to wait, then more people will ask for you to hold, etc. Where does one draw the line? There's also the issue of how credit is given to everyone. If there is a LOT of people, you might not get full rewards, so now people are paranoid about others coming in and pull early to make sure they can get full credit. Then again, I don't know why people are so into hunts when the rewards are so meh. In 2.X, I gave up on hunting early to avoid all this drama and opted to take the slower route of gear upgrading through the 24 man raids.

[TacoBell]

early pulling? if my wrath stacks are at 5 im pulling lol

[Snugglebutt]

What causes people to think that way? (Actually a genuine question because I really want to know.)

Why do you think everyone else should wait for you to arrive, wait for your friends to arrive and wait for the friends of those friends to arrive?

There is no universally accepted time limit, no consensus and by proxy no such thing as early pulling. The example you gave was not an example of 'early' pulling but could be construed as 'inconsiderate' pulling when specifically about person x triggered it but in terms of when it is not triggered (which is the case for most hunts) it is not inconsiderate to wait 1 minute just like it is not if waiting 20 minutes. It is however stupid to pull one when there is not enough people present to actually kill it. It is not needed to work together for a common goal on the scale you imply either by way of waiting for everyone who ever wanted to kill it to eventually get there which in reality would be almost never ending. Hunts were not intended for zerging, they were designed for small groups so as long as enough people are there to actually achieve that goal then regardless of whether they wait long enough for you to arrive people are still working together to achieve it.

The problem with hunts right now in my opinion is SE have made them too important for progression outside of hunts themselves, most people are not doing them anymore because they love hunting so to address this they need to limit the rewards to counter that. There is also the problem of being over leveled for the content and SE should enforce a level sync on them like they do with fates in my opinion. Another thing SE could do is increase the amount of hunt targets in the game in general and/or lower the respawn timers to counter balance the increased ratio of server population doing them when they do things like they did which is increased the rewards by way of hunt marks being used for anima upgrades etc.

[MomomiMomi]

What causes people to think that way? (Actually a genuine question because I really want to know.)

Here are a few examples.

You might not have time to wait for others.

Watching a hunt get melted in less than 10 seconds is not fun.

For PS3 or low end PC players, waiting usually means the hunt will disappear and you risk getting 0 credit if you can't find it.

[FinaSel]

Why do you think everyone else should wait for you to arrive, wait for your friends to arrive and wait for the friends of those friends to arrive?

There is no universally accepted time limit, no consensus and by proxy no such thing as early pulling.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say everyone else should wait for me, my friends, and friends of friends to arrive. I don't know what part of my post made you think I said that. It seems strange...

I don't think the person who spawned / discovered the mob should wait for everyone to arrive. Of course it's unrealistic.
What is realistic, however, is for the first person to discover it to at least wait for the person / group who triggered it to arrive.

Furthermore, if the person who discovered / spawned the mob shouted "Start time: ET [time]", and someone else who arrived after the discoverer / trigger group decides to just pull it anyway, is this early pulling?
When the discoverer / trigger group shouts the time limit, shouldn't that be the acceptable time limit? (Within reason of course. Asking to begin 10 minutes later would be quite unreasonable.)

If the discoverer / trigger group says "Start time: ET 16:00", then that is the start time. That's basically how it works in Carbuncle. Everyone knows it and almost everyone follows it. (Like I said, only seen someone not follow that twice.) As far as the folks doing hunts in our server are concerned, pulling before the announced start time is an "early pull".

EDIT: Also about this situation: "Oh, my friend is coming. Can you wait a little longer?". As I mentioned in another post also, the discoverer / trigger group decide the start time. If they are in different groups, they discuss it together. They announce the start time in /shout and, usually, in Party Finder. They also announce the start time whenever someone joins the party. This way, people know ahead of time whether or not they can make it there before the agreed upon time.

What I consider to be an early pull is when someone who is not in the initial trigger / discoverer group comes along and pulls before the agreed upon time.

Do other servers not use this "/shout ET [time]" or write the time in Party Finder method?

[Kerii]

-snip-

This is kind of why I'm advocating force spawned over nerfing the system, but making it continue to function the same. Honestly, I don't even do hunts until I walk face first into them because of how people get about it. When hunts are force spawned you have to prepare the group in advance, you go out into the world and do whatever task to spawn it, and then you and your group fight the hunt. Everyone wins because everyone who wants to do it can. Not to mention it's much more interesting than trying to herd cattle when once the thing is pulled it's over.

[Drkdays]

It's like inviting a few of your neighbors over for cake but the first person to arrive jumps ON the cake and says you should be grateful you cut yourself a slice before he got there.

[Kerii]

It's like inviting a few of your neighbors over for cake but the first person to arrive jumps ON the cake and says you should be grateful you cut yourself a slice before he arrived.

If you knew my significant other you would be more afraid of that analogy than you should be. On a more serious note, yes that's very much how it is.