Variance in player skill is hurting FFXIV's itemization design.

[Granyala]

Give me 3 good reasons why people who don't raid should have raid stat bonus gear? If you raid you have earned it. I could go on all night about why they shouldn't have it without giving effort, but before anyone ask me or want them to give them reasons, I'd like to have you give me 3 reasons.

I don't have to.

Raiders already get a higher item level to boot, so they are more powerful.
I simply see no reason at all to further INCREASE the already existing gap.

You don't? From my point of view everything besides end-game raiding (and props to SE for Weeping City) is exactly that, but to each their own.

*chuckles* It's kinda awkward, but reading your posts reminds me of myself when I was a mythic raider.
Ofc everything else seems mindless from our raiding Ivory towers. (excluding high end PvP, which is actually A LOT harder than raiding)

I also do agree with you that the difficulty of the current 4mans is rather underwhelming. It's barely possible to wipe in there anymore. :/

Still, once you leave the raiding scene, yet still like the game as such, you will begin to understand where we "dirty casuals" are coming from.

[RobbieH]

Ofc everything else seems mindless from our raiding Ivory towers. (excluding high end PvP, which is actually A LOT harder than raiding)

I like the PvP in this game now that you bring it up, however everytime they release a new mode it kills the previous ones, this has been happening since the very first content patch, and that's something they still they didn't realize, which is: everytime they release something they kill pretty much everything that exists.

This is a big flaw in design in my opinion, and to make things worse they removed the ilvl restriction that PvP gear had, they killed rank grinding, once again casuals are at it.

I just wish they would stop "casualising" everything because that's what's been happening, i'm seriously suffering from an huge burnout, sadly i can't take GW2 anymore either, same for Black Desert, Blade & Soul and others, this is the game i love and want to keep playing, but it's been very disappointing what they have been doing, i could write more flaws than the ones i wrote here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3749119

There's been very few design changes that were good since 2.0, i'm glad they introduced tokens to Savage, the first SIX weeks i didn't get anything out of A5S thank god i got the tokens for the damn belt, on top of that to get i230 Lore it would require 7 weeks, SEVEN, unless i got the item from Savage.

Two things i'll never understand about raids in this game and it's drops:

- Savage still locked on content, why only lift the restriction when new Savage tier comes? Pretty much nobody is going to bother with it because they will be busy with the new ilvl.
- 24 Man Raid gear is 10 ilvls bellow the cap, and has a weekly limit, can't be upgraded or dyed. What.

^For the 24 man raid they should just add the stats that are not a combination of what already exists in Lore and Savage, for example, let's say Savage chest is Crit+SS, and Lore is Acc+DET, there's still more possible combination of stats, why not make the 24 Man raid item i240 and the stats CRIT+DET for example?

Yes it would probably be bis, so what? It's still one per week. The next content update will make it obsolete, why make it i230, not dyable and not upgradeable? I don't get it.

._.

[Kaurie]

I don't think that's what he said. I think what he meant was "why should interesting bonuses be limited to raid gear". As in, if they decide to add some sort of bonuses outside of stats and sub stats, like "cure 1 potency +50" or whatever, that kind of system should be available on both raid gear and non-raid gear. Sure, have the types of bonuses be more effective on raid gear if you want, but the system of it shouldn't be locked to raid gear.

Personally, I think it should just be done through materia - where the set bonus stuff is in raiding. However, if you don't raid, you can just buy the materia off the market board. Similar to how people need to buy crafting stuff off the market board if they don't choose to partake in crafting (i.e. foods, potions, crafting materials for relic etc.). Makes it accessible for all, provides incentive for raiding, gives interesting bonuses for raiding and to gear etc.

They could also do set bonuses that are achievable through other means, but perhaps are less nice.

i.e. Alexander Materia V
Provides +5 crit, +5 sps, +5sks, +5 det
Secondary effect: when two different pieces of gear have Alexander Materia V slotted in them, the wearer gains the following bonus - SMN: reduces MP cost of Ruin III by 100, BLM: increases timer on Enochian by 5s per refresh, WHM: Cure II procs are now instant cast, etc.
(I was going to make more, but it's hard to make these up on the spot in a semi-balanced fashion, naturally testing would be vital to implementation).
Tertiary effect: when four different pieces of gear have Alexander Materia V slotted in them, the wearer gains the following bonus - (more bonuses, perhaps this would could just be something like +Main Stat etc.)

[bass9020]

Personally, I think it should just be done through materia - where the set bonus stuff is in raiding. However, if you don't raid, you can just buy the materia off the market board. Similar to how people need to buy crafting stuff off the market board if they don't choose to partake in crafting (i.e. foods, potions, crafting materials for relic etc.). Makes it accessible for all, provides incentive for raiding, gives interesting bonuses for raiding and to gear etc.

They could also do set bonuses that are achievable through other means, but perhaps are less nice.

They should be linked to the class guilds. Bring back the guild tokens!!! Make the guild relevant again, give them a purpose

[zosia]

I don't have to.

Raiders already get a higher item level to boot, so they are more powerful.
I simply see no reason at all to further INCREASE the already existing gap.
*chuckles* It's kinda awkward, but reading your posts reminds me of myself when I was a mythic raider.Ofc everything else seems mindless from our raiding Ivory towers. (excluding high end PvP, which is actually A LOT harder than raiding)

I also do agree with you that the difficulty of the current 4mans is rather underwhelming. It's barely possible to wipe in there anymore. :/

Still, once you leave the raiding scene, yet still like the game as such, you will begin to understand where we "dirty casuals" are coming from.

There is no gap, By the time most raiders are close to being 240, welfare city comes out and everyone can be 240 in a matter of weeks. There is only an illusion of any gap and it's at the raider's expense.

You know this game has a problem with raid rewards when other game developers call Yoshida out mid interview (looking at you Level-5 interview) on how bad the rewards are for savage difficulty. Keep sticking your head in the sand though, this game is so close to LoTRO status that it will go over the edge any patch now.

I don't even need to make an argument anymore, other game companies will do it for me every time the trash reward system for savage comes up in an interview.

[Noxifer]

Personally, I think it should just be done through materia

Oh I agree completely =) Like for example the idea with having it be special materia (Untradeable, bind gear on meld) bought through the limited tomestones. (Or some other system that would limit the speed of access without making it 'exclusive' or extreme RNG.)

But if it was added in the form of "set bonus when wearing x pieces of this set", then both raiders and non-raiders should be able to take part in that.

Personally, if it was added through set bonuses, I'd like to see a little bit more varied bonuses than what exists today for GC equipment.
I mean, as in for example:

If 3 or more Plague Bringer pieces equipped: [minor effect]
If 5 or more Plague Bringer pieces equipped: [minor-to-medium effect]
If 7 or more Plague Bringer pieces equipped: [medium effect]
If 9 or more Plague Bringer pieces equipped: [medium-to-large effect]

(How many pieces needed of course depending on how many that set has, so maybe 2,3,4,5 on a set that doesn't have accessories.)

It'd mean new variables to take into account when mixing sets for BiS. E.g. "Is it worth taking this item that has Parry instead of Crit, if it means I get that +5% bonus to enmity?"

I'm certainly not saying this would be easy to balance; that'd probably be easier with Materia. But it could be very interesting.

Edit: Saw your edit =) Seems we were a bit on the same lines :p But I also think that it would take a lot of space in the tooltip window to list all the effects for all the jobs. If they decided to go that way, they'd probably have to make it into stuff like "Alexander Materia of Healing V" to limit the number of jobs listed ^^;

[Granyala]

The next content update will make it obsolete, why make it i230, not dyable and not upgradeable? I don't get it.
._.

I think they view Mhach gear as a catch-up measure to speed people along until they get either lore 230s which they can upgrade or until they get savage raid loot.
Same is probably true with the Nidhogg weapons, though these are in a bit of an awkward position, considering you have to clear extreme mode to get them.

There is no gap, By the time most raiders are close to being 240, welfare city comes out and everyone can be 240 in a matter of weeks. There is only an illusion of any gap and it's at the raider's expense.

But that is not a problem with the rewards themselves.
It's a problem with horrible raid loot RNG and lockouts.

This can easily be fixed by increasing the speed at which raiders gain loot, so they they are 240 by the time "welfare city" hits the streets.
BTW, at one piece of gear a week it takes 3 months to upgrade to 240.

[zosia]

I think they view Mhach gear as a catch-up measure to speed people along until they get either lore 230s which they can upgrade or until they get savage raid loot.
Same is probably true with the Nidhogg weapons, though these are in a bit of an awkward position, considering you have to clear extreme mode to get them.

But that is not a problem with the rewards themselves.
It's a problem with horrible raid loot RNG and lockouts.

This can easily be fixed by increasing the speed at which raiders gain loot, so they they are 240 by the time "welfare city" hits the streets.
BTW, at one piece of gear a week it takes 3 months to upgrade to 240.

You do know hunts are still a thing right? It does not take long to accumulate a bunch of seals, esp if hunts are unpopular on your server. It's quite common for A's just to be roaming around on my sever.

[Hayward]

There is no gap, By the time most raiders are close to being 240, welfare city comes out and everyone can be 240 in a matter of weeks. There is only an illusion of any gap and it's at the raider's expense.

This attitude right here is the very reason people are put off by raiders. How in the world does allowing everyone else to get caught up become synonymous with "welfare"? Should they just be happy with i210 gear until the next expansion? My guess is i220 crafted gear wouldn't even be available in a raider-approved version of XIV. Should those commoners simply be allowed to struggle through the new content unless they are accepted in the high-and-mighty raid FCs?

I'd be quite interested in your answers.

[loreleidiangelo]

This attitude right here is the very reason people are put off by raiders. How in the world does allowing everyone else to get caught up become synonymous with "welfare"? Should they just be happy with i210 gear until the next expansion? My guess is i220 crafted gear wouldn't even be available in a raider-approved version of XIV. Should those commoners simply be allowed to struggle through the new content unless they are accepted in the high-and-mighty raid FCs?

I'd be quite interested in your answers.

The commonly-argued point is usually that you don't "need" top-end gear to do anything at the casual level.